Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

[GAR]

There's an interesting description on this saddle as to how it was dated. It appears to have been well researched, but it's beyond my knowledge to confirm. If this is genuine, it is in amazing condition and will be worth watching to see what it sells for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170716931820&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_500wt_1275

[Mark Choate]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Gary,

While I am no "Ken Knopp" (nor do I play one on T.V.) I must say that most of this saddle looks accurate to what they are claiming. The hardware and hangers look right, etc.

I would draw the attention of those reading this, to look at the "ariel" photo shot from above the tree. Also, the shot from below that captures the bars. There has been much discussion on another thread of saddles fitting, etc. Notice the very narrow slope and how the bars accomodate a high and narrow withered horse. This was the predominant "build" of the horses of the time.
Conversely, we have troubles today because so many trees are built for the broader and wider backed modern horses. Just a note.................

Good post and thanks, Gary.

regards,
Mark

[Tom Craig]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Looks like a mighty fine saddle, and clearly posted by someone who has done their homework, or is one of "us." It would be a great piece to add to a collection!

As to the saddle bar question, it's interesting. I used to ride an '04 tree for trail rides and such, and never had an issue with the tree being too narrow...but then I never owned one of those wide bodied Quarter Horses either. John Tobey in our outfit has a couple of original trees, and we tested them out on a wide variety of horses in the unit, and for the most part, it fit better than any of the reproductions. But again, we didn't have any wide bodied horses in the unit at that point. We did have one Standardbred that had back issues with repro trees, and that original fit him like a glove. It's like shoes...no two fit any two feet exactly alike.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Mark Choate]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

You're correct, Tom.

My horses are for the most part high-withered and narrow and the original '59's and even the '04's will fit. I think what we are seeing with most of the wider trees is a spin off of modern tree makers building trees where the upper portion looks like a period saddle, but with bars built to accomodate the wider, QH framed horses that many use.

The originals work best for me personally.

regards,
Mark

[GAR]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

I noticed that there isn't a reserve on this saddle. If someone is able to snag it for the opening bid of $1500, it seems like a heck of a deal.

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

It is almost impossible to judge the veracity of this saddle by looking at photos. I really want to find something wrong, but a cursory glance at the pictures does not allow me that pleasure. The wooden part of the stirrups us very interesting, and certainly looks "period" to my eye, at least from the photos.

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Something doesn't seem right about the tree to me. It seems too big and clunky in its appearance. Also the rawhide stitching seems too large. The apparent thickness of the leather on the stirrup hoods is too thick. The lack of the maker's plate is another red flag for me. My '62 dated saddle has one. Also it is curious to note that the coat straps are missing yet EVERYTHING else is there. The fact that someone is selling a $3-$4000 saddle with no reserve is another.
I will not deny that the hardware appears to be original, but there is not enough detail in the photos to tell for certain. To me, something just screams out fake and it is rather an accumulation of things rather than any one single item that says so. A possible way to verify the authenticity would be to get its total weight.
Dave Myrick

[Forrestcavalryman]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Dave, is it just me or do the slot plates for the coat straps appear to be '04 ones?

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Well, always hard to tell by pics but one thing that might speak for it is that you do not see any ring staple ends on the bottom which are bent over the rawhide. If the seller could post close ups of the spots where they should get through the wood it would be perfect. I know of no repro saddle maker who has the staples attached while rawhiding. The originals apparently had this feature as the staple ends were bent over and were covered by the rawhide.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

To my eye, the pommel looks awfully rounded like an '04 tree and the abrupt transition of the cantle to the seat as well as the deep curves of the bars also look suspiciously `04 to me as well. `Jes my opinion.

Paul McKee

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

I do not agree, the pommel looks like the typical contractor pommel as far as I can judge it. Teh 1904 is more oval shaped not this much pointed. Any more comments?

[CompanyWag]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Jan,

What about the curvature on the side of the pommel? Personally I'd prefer to see a straighter side, but you may be seeing something that I am missing.

Also the subject saddle shows evidence of stay thongs having been present at the juncture of the pommel and cantle to the bars. I realize that some `59s may have been made that way, but stay thongs I usually associate with `04 trees. Any thoughts?

If this is truly a solid example of a mid-war `59, the buyer would be getting a very good deal at $1500.

Paul McKee

[Mark Choate]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

These are the reasons that I never make "investment" type acquisitions on ebay or by photo.

These things must be handled in person and even then we sometimes get "took."

But yes, it would be a great deal at $1500 if authentic.

regards,
Mark

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Well Mark is right, spending so m uch money needs to have 100% proof and this can only be doen by handling the item.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Museum grade 1863 Mac on ebay.

Absolutely! But it is informative to discuss the merits of the item to see the range of opinions it generates. It will be interesting to see how much it actually sells for. For the buyers sake, I hope my doubts are wrong.

Paul McKee