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**Mike Ventura** · 11-25-2011, 03:49 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

An interesting conclusion can be inferred from the report of ammunition expended in 2Q1864: Of the total of 33,803 rounds expended in the quarter, 29,003 or 85.8% were expended via "long arm." And the most prolific round expended was the Sharps cartridge, accounting for 66.2% or 2 out of 3 rounds expended.

**Mississippian** · 11-26-2011, 12:25 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

A little bit more....

CSR of Col. T. Ruffin

Ordnance on Hand for Co. "H" 1st NC Cav. Jan 1st 1863

36 Long Arms (Colts Rifle, Enfield Carbine & "Others")
43 Sabers
45 Saber Belts
36 Pistols
33 Cartridge Boxes
30 Cap Pouches
40 Gun Slins
39 Saddles
30 Halters
37 Bridles
33 Saddle Bags
9 Curry Combs
13 Horse Brushes
45 Canteens
17 pr Spurs
71 pr Blankets
50 Horse Blankets
10 Nose Bag
29 Surcingles
2000 Rifle Cartridges
500 Pistol Cartridges
100 Extra caps
5 Bullet Molds

Issued Jan 9th 1863

9 Long Arms
25 Horse Blankets

**Mississippian** · 11-26-2011, 01:27 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

Thought this was interesting, never seen one of these before. Gives an idea of prices in 1861

CSR of Lt. Col. Barringer

Undated 1861

1 Bay Mare 7yr old 15 hands high @ $135
1 Sorrel Horse 9 yr old 15 1/4 hands high @ $155
1 Brown Horse 6 yr old 16 hands high @ $100
1 Sorrel Horse 6 yr old 15 3/4 hands high @ $140
1 Bay Horse 8 yr old 15 hands high @ $125
1 Brown Horse 6 yr old 15 hands high @ $125
1 Bay Horse 9 yr old 16 hands high @ $145
1 Sorrel Horse 8 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $150
1 Brown Horse 6 yr old 16 hands high @ $140

Will MacDonald

**David Fox** · 11-26-2011, 01:39 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

"Expended" ammunition perhaps includes that damaged. Cavalry was especially hard on paper and linen cartridges, so a disproportionate loss of such ammunition may not necessarily reflect the proportion of paper and linen cartridge weapons in troopers' hands.

**Mark Choate** · 11-26-2011, 06:56 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

Will,

Can you expand a bit on the horses and the prices that you posted? Was this a listing of the prices that Lt Col. Barringer paid for these particular horses and if so does it state who or from what source they bought them from?

regards,
Mark

**Mississippian** · 11-26-2011, 07:10 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

The horses were government owned by the State of North Carolina and the state QM issued them to the men. I'm assuming that the price was there since the horses were government property like a gun or cartridge box if the trooper lost the horse he could be charged for it. Here is another one from the CSR of Maj. Crumpler

Issued July 18th 1861

1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $135
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 hands high @ $115
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 16 hands high @ $130
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $125
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $150
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 16 hands high @ $150
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 15 hands high @ $100
1 Sorrel Horse 5 yr old 15 hands high @ $100

Will MacDonald

**Ken Knopp** · 11-27-2011, 12:22 AM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

Will, can you provide the verbiage the report used regarding these horses. This is very curious. At this early stage of the war it was uncommon for the gov't (state or Confederate) to provide horses to troopers. I have always been under the impression that the troopers provided their own mounts. In the case of Confederate service the horses were valued and the owners renumerated in the event the horse was lost while in service. Perhaps it was different for North Carolina state troops or perhaps this was a unique case. I'd like to understand this better. Is there any other accompanying information from which we can glean an understanding?

Ken R Knopp

**Mississippian** · 11-27-2011, 05:33 AM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

Ken here is the verbiage of the form:

State of North Carolina

Invoice of Quarter Master's property this day turned over to Captain T.N. Crumpler

1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $135
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 hands high @ $115
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 16 hands high @ $130
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $125
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $150
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 16 hands high @ $150
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 15 hands high @ $100
1 Sorrel Horse 5 yr old 15 hands high @ $100

Received, Jefferson NC, July 18th 1861 of Capt. A Myers, Quartermaster and Paymaster the following Quarter Master's property, viz:
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $135
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 hands high @ $115
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 16 hands high @ $130
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $125
1 Bay Horse 6 yr old 15 1/2 hands high @ $150
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 16 hands high @ $150
1 Roan Horse 5 yr old 15 hands high @ $100
1 Sorrel Horse 5 yr old 15 hands high @ $100

Signed T. Crumpler, Captain

The form makes it really clear that the horses are QM property, and Crumpler's file has 10 more of these forms in there.

I think the answer might lie in the fact that the 1st NC Cav was at this point of the war was still officially the "9th NC State Troops" part of the NC "Regular Army" and not the volunteers. I think it wasn't until September 1861 that the two different establishments were merged, and that's how NC got it's screwy regimental numbering system.

Will MacDonald

**Mark Choate** · 11-27-2011, 08:05 AM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

Ken,

That is what I was thinking as well when I asked my question. I know the states did their own thing, (ie. Gov. Joe Brown in GA. holding back uniforms for only his troops until late in the war, etc.) but this is news for me. Especially in July of '61 as the Confederacy was barely formed and the basic necessities were rare enough, much less gov't provided mounts.

Officers procuring mounts for his men from private sources is something I have heard of, but this is surprising.

Just reaffirms that continued study and research is always a good thing.

regards,
Mark

**Outrider** · 11-27-2011, 08:30 AM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

I like how it illustrates that generally speaking, many reenactor's horses are too tall and that if one, simply based on this and other descriptions of horses that I have seen of civilian sellers in the period conclude that 15 hands or so was the average size of a horse favored for riding then that is not much different at all from the "average" horse today.

**Mississippian** · 02-29-2012, 01:52 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

Gents, Just found some more info about the 1st NC's initial kitting out. This is from the CSR of Capt. A.W. Lawrence, a ordnance officer in N.C.

Sent to Col. M. Ransom's 1st NC Cav, Sept 5th 1861

170 Halter Bridles
74 pr Holsters
74 Breast Straps
74 Cruppers
74 pr Stirrup Leathers
74 pr Stirrup Fenders
74 pr Wood Stirrups
74 Girths
32 pr Saddle Bags

More later,

Will MacDonlad

**Mike Ventura** · 02-29-2012, 02:30 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

"Breast Straps" are interesting, but any idea what is meant by "pr" holsters? A pair? As in "two??"

**Prodical Reb** · 02-29-2012, 09:20 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

would those be "pommel holsters"? That is the only pair holsters I can think of.

**Mississippian** · 03-01-2012, 01:09 PM

Re: Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

Ok, Her are some more from Capt. Lawrence:

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav. Aug 10th 1861

151 Sabers
620 Saber Belts
94 Percussion Pistols

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav. Aug. 19th 1861

3000 Rifle Ball Cartridges

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav. Sept 4th 1861

120 Hall's Carbines (alt)
120 Wipers
12 Spring Vices
12 Moulds

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav. Sept 6th 1861

100 Colts Rifles
30 Screw Drivers
10 Moulds
25 Sabers

Sent to 1st N.C. Cavalry Sept 9th 1861

64 Dragoon Saddles

Sent to 1st N.C. Cavalry Sept 11th 1861

64 Halter Bridles
64 pr Holsters
64 Breast Straps
64 Cruppers
64 pr Stirrup Leathers
64 pr Stirrup Fenders
60 pr Wood Stirrups
64 Girths
64 pr Saddle Bags
500 Gun Slings

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav Sept 13th 1861

42 pr Saddle Bags

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav Sept 23rd 1861

54 Saddles (loose)
54 pr Holsters
54 pr Stirrup Fenders
54 Breast Straps
54 Cruppers
54 pr Stirrup Straps
54 Girths
257 Halter Bridles
54 pr Saddle Bags
54 pr Wood Stirrups
1650 Blankets

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav. Oct. 3rd 1861

20 Saddles (loose)
80 Cavalry Sabers (from New Orleans)
15 Cavalry Sabers
68 Pistols (Horseman)
120 Cruppers
120 Breast Straps
120 Girths
122 Halter Bridles
120 pr Stirrup Leathers
123 pr Stirrups
120 pr Holsters
120 pr Saddle Bags
120 pr Stirrup Fenders

Sent to 1st N.C. Cav. Oct 14th 1861

180 Hall's Carbines
180 Screw Drivers
180 Wipers

Will MacDonald

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Ordnance Records of the 1st North Carolina Cavalry

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