Raymond 2012

[ButtermilkRanger]

I haven't seen it make any of the message boards, but the rumor I heard was that one of the mainstream alliances was pushing the Vicksburg Campaign, in Raymond MS, as its national event for 2012. I've also heard that it will be a campaign event more in line with the first Raymond from the late '90s and not the second one a couple years later. I know it will be mainstream and I know it is only a couple of weekends after Perryville, but Raymond is sort of a soft spot for some of us. It was where the Buttermilk Rangers as a unit was conceived and the first time we rode side by side with what would soon become the Critter Co., all under the command of the 7th TN.

[wavey1us]

Re: Raymond 2012

You think they could rule out a shooting this time?

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Raymond 2012

Bill beat me to the obvious punch line.

[wavey1us]

Re: Raymond 2012

It looks like it will be in Oct 2012. I attended Raymond 1998 and was not that impressed with some of the command staff and excessive movements they placed man and beast through prior to any of the scenarios starting. Not to mention the lasck of water for equine was a major drawback.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Raymond 2012

Larry,

Those are more good memories that you are conjuring up there. I remember that first Raymond (maybe "97) was really hot (not as bad as Manassas this year, but hot) but had a great time!

I have been rubbing my forehead about the Raymond event (and others) as we have a glut of good events that are hitting right in that same timeframe. In late 2012, within a month or so of one another, we have: 1) Perryville, 2) Westville, GA. 3) Unison, Va and 4) Raymond. It seems like it is feast or famine.

I realize that some are closer to certain events than others, but it always is a dilemma as to how we can execute one of the basic tenants of cavalry warfare and "bring the most to bear at the same place and time" and not divide our forces. I suppose that it is good to have representation of the authentic side of the mounted impression at a lot of places, but we are so few in number (relative to other branches) and it would be so good for us to do some of these adjuncts and EFUBU events en masse. Oh well.................guess I can dream. :wink_smil

We will see.

thanks,
Mark

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Raymond 2012

My problem with Raymond is the way that they handled the shooting and the so-called investigation surrounding it. At the time, and even today, it seemed as if they just swept it under the rug because they didn't want negative publicity. I'm not sure that I want to attend an event if those same people are running it.

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Raymond 2012

Mike,

You're getting the second Raymond confused with the first. The second Raymond, where we had a ad hoc authentic cav unit with us and you guys, didn't hold a candle to the first, in my opinion. The first, though fully mainstream from beginning to end, was a good hard-riding campaign event that covered a lot of ground. I liked hanging out with you guys at the second Raymond, but the event as a whole wasn't much to remember. I seem to remember some horrendous Federal cav impressions from Terry's Texas Rangers and some F&I era-looking Indians running around for some reason.

As for the heat or lack of water from the first Raymond, I don't remember it being an issue for us. This is where we live and the heat was just a normal day at the office for us. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary. I like having a feast of famine range of events to choose from, but so far, everything I'd planned to do in the spring is coming up bad for me, so I'm having to think about the Fall. Perryville is a maybe at best because of the distance, Virginia is out, and I don't know anything about the Westville event. Raymond is only an hour and a half away, so as mainstream events go, it's a good fit for me.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Raymond 2012

Notwithstanding the aberration of the shooting incident, which is in my opinion, irrelevant in any discussion of future events there, I will agree that the Raymond's in the past have been good. What perplexes me about this one is the timing. Their advertisements call it the anniversary of the 150'ths yet it takes place in the corresponding year of 1862 and not 1863 when the battles (Raymond, Champion Hill and Vicksburg) actually occurred. Moreover, it has poor timing. They claim to have scheduled October 2012 so as to take advantage of the favorable fall weather in Mississippi (OK, I agree) but also to avoid other national events and yet, it comes right on the heels of Perryville - a huge 150th national event that is centrally located and with a very long and excellent track record. I understand wanting to avoid Chancellorsville 2013 (May), Gettysburg 2013 (July) and Chickamauga 2013 (Sept). OK, I can understand the reasoning but is it faulty reasoning?
Given the economy it is very hard for westerners to go east and easterners to go west. Some will but most will not. If they do, it will be for perhaps, one event that year and for most, perhaps one event over the entire 150th cycle! So, I have to ask the obvious. Since they are going to miss out on easterner's coming west anyway, what’s wrong with having Raymond in the spring of 2013? Say, perhaps April or May (when Mississippi weather is quite good) and, it just so happens to fall right on their 150th anniversary dates? Or this question?... Where else can one congregate the western reenactors for a national event in the spring of 2013 (1863)? Answer: Nowhere. My point is, I think, sadly, they are making a huge error in the choice of dates. It will most certainly compete in the fall of 2012 for the western reeanctor’s limited resources of money and vacation time (not to mention the wife’s “kitchen pass”) with other great events (Perryville in particular) and will, as a result, not be the grand size national event that they hope for. And that, is just simply sad.
What is even more distressing is that as I purview all of the 150th’s scheduled over the next two years I see conflicts everywhere! This kind of short sighted planning and dare I say politics is counterproductive, wasteful and destructive to everything we are trying to do in this hobby. But, oh well. That’s life.
Am I missing something here?

Ken R Knopp

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Raymond 2012

I agree completely Ken and I have the same questions/concerns. They have the opportunity to recreate a good mainstream campaign if they follow the script from the first one back in '97 (and avoid the problems of '99 or '01 or whatever year it was), but they'll fumble it I'm sure. The rumor I heard was that they didn't want to do it in '13 because it would conflict with Gettysburg and Chickamauga. I'll take a wait and see attitude, but since it's just down the road, I'll try to be there regardless. Maybe I'll get lucky. Even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while.

[David Hulsey]

Re: Raymond 2012

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?25098-150th-Anniversary-Vicksburg-Raymond

[Spinster]

Re: Raymond 2012

Thank you David, I'm always all thumbs when I'm trying to link from an iPhone

Gentlemen, several on this thread have long strong experience with putting together "national" events. Others don't, and have not dealt with the many factors that come to bear when sites and opportunities are calendared.

You're not saying anything that was not said several years ago, and at the intervening meetings of the Blue Gray Alliance. But, this date and the timing for the event is a done deal. Some say that seeing sausage made will put you off of it for life, others just cowboy up and eat the sausage. The same thing holds true for large scale event planning.

More property is available at this Raymond event. The BGA continues to acquire moveable infrastructure for events to provide for water needs.

During October of 2012, some of us will haul wagons and teams to Perryville, Raymond, and Westville. The situation is what it is.

As for the reservations concerning the shooting incident at the last Raymond: nobody liked the way it was handled. At the time, I was a member of the gentleman's unit--the 19th Alabama. Significant changes occurred in safety inspections in the hobby at that time. Since then, after multiple meetings with local organizations in Raymond, the 19th Alabama and its umbrella organization have returned to Raymond for a good sized event. Personally, I've done three events there.

The BGA welcomes interested parties to its meetings and site work weekends. We do a lot more site work than sit down meetings--but the next planning meeting is in January in Nashville. Event dates in 2014 and 2015 are on the agenda.

Civilian 'Governor', Blue Gray Alliance, and Second Assistant Pot-Scrubber, Wagon Corps-

[Tom Craig]

Re: Raymond 2012

Ken,

You are absolutely right in all of your points. To add on however, the Raymond folks aren't the only ones conflicting. There has been no readily apparent planning and coordination across any of the different levels of the hobby that I can really see. I know some folks, like the guys that organized the 2nd Miss. and Shiloh's paddlewheel adventure have a plan, but they are in the minority. Earlier in the year I through out a thread with different potential cavalry gigs for the next few years, and got no response.

We all knew the 150th thing was coming, and hard as it is to coordinate anything in this hobby(ies), it's a shame on us all for not making more of an effort. Now we've got 4 events in October that are great for/want cavalry: Perryville, Unison, Westville, and now Raymond. None of us will be able to be at all of them, and most of us will be lucky to be at more than one... a shame really.
Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[wavey1us]

Re: Raymond 2012

Mike,

You're getting the second Raymond confused with the first. The second Raymond, where we had a ad hoc authentic cav unit with us and you guys, didn't hold a candle to the first, in my opinion. The first, though fully mainstream from beginning to end, was a good hard-riding campaign event that covered a lot of ground. I liked hanging out with you guys at the second Raymond, but the event as a whole wasn't much to remember. I seem to remember some horrendous Federal cav impressions from Terry's Texas Rangers and some F&I era-looking Indians running around for some reason.

As for the heat or lack of water from the first Raymond, I don't remember it being an issue for us. This is where we live and the heat was just a normal day at the office for us. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary. I like having a feast of famine range of events to choose from, but so far, everything I'd planned to do in the spring is coming up bad for me, so I'm having to think about the Fall. Perryville is a maybe at best because of the distance, Virginia is out, and I don't know anything about the Westville event. Raymond is only an hour and a half away, so as mainstream events go, it's a good fit for me.

Larry,
I rode Federal for the event and the first area they had us pre-positioned ran out of water within the first night. Thank god my pard and I found a stream to water our horses in.

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Raymond 2012

Bill,
We mostly watered out of creeks anyway, but for us water never was an issue. I do remember that one of the days on the march they drove up on a big tractor with a flat bed full of cut down drums of water that they were refilling from a fire truck. The other water sources were faucets and plastic watering troughs. I honestly don't remember what our water sources were for the second Raymond. I just remember that the event as a whole wasn't very memorable, other than the shooting incident and a whole lot of hurry up and wait. We didn't cover much ground and most of the fighting was static and scripted. The first Raymond was what passed for a real campaign in those days and most of the fighting, for us, was unscripted. It was more like a tactical than a national event.