Federal Russet Carbine Slings

[Tom Craig]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Thanks for posting those cool pictures!

I can't make out the picture super well, and I can't seem to make it any bigger. From what I can see, it looks like a running martingale. You don't see them super often on trooper rigs, but I've seen plenty of general officer's horses with them from the period.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[David Jarnagin]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Entry 21 Box 190/S-194 Date: 24 April 1861 From/To: Symington, Allegheny Arsenal to Ripley

Within the three last days many of the Harness makers who came from Philadelphia, on calls from this Arsenal, are now returning there on assurance of employment, there being extensive contracts out in that city for equipments of different kinds. This interruption to our operations here, I shall endeavor to overcome in a measure by inviting workmen from the interior towns West of this, but the interruption will be felt. It is observed that when the Sharps Carbine is issued to Cavalry the Gun Sling is required. In orders for Supplies Nos. 337 & 503, not being familiar with this arm, I thought it proper to call attention to it, as other carbines require the Carbine Sling & Swivel. (I edited the unrelated parts of the letter out)


Steven,

I found this letter out of the archives and it shows that the US Ordnance Dept. made a difference between gun sling and carbine slings. A gun sling is what everyone tends to call a musket sling today. These slings were made from russet bag leather from before 1839 to at least the end of the CW. The “musket sling” is called a gun sling from at least as early as 1839.

Carbine slings were made from a number of different leathers. From 1839 (white)buff, then in 1852 blackened buff, around 1857 waxed leather (upper) and lastly in bridle after September 1, 1862. The one odd point is carbine slings and sword belts go back to blackened buff in 1864.

It looks like the 11th Ohio Cav regiment was equipped like mounted rifle men, since they are listed as having rifle cartridge boxes, (box)plates, swords and sword belts.

David Jarnagin

[Steven Dacus]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

David,

After reading your letter I just had a "Duh" moment. What you stated is obviously true and it never occurred to me since I had been in "Cavalry" mode when researching this regt. The ord. records in my last post does say "Gun sling" and would therefore would not be the carbine sling that I "assumed". Thanks for the kick in the butt back to reality! I guess every now and then I need reminded of some fundamental information.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Thanks David,

I like Steven, I had a "Duh" moment as well. Your letter and comments really helped a lot in having a clearer understanding on this subject.

Good stuff!!

Mark

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Okay, I'm behind the ball on these... First off very cool pictures, thanks for sharing them!

Something about the first image says officer to me... I think that the rings on the reins may be some form of what we know as a running martingale. The second ring (just above the lead strap) looks like a breast collar ring and that makes me think martingale like many other officer images...

Really dig the saddleblanket! Kuddos to you Bob for lining out the Native American saddleblanket possibility!

Always interesting to pop in here to see what you all have found!

TEH

[David Jarnagin]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Steven
I had one of those well Duh moments myself Friday afternoon so do not feel bad.

David Jarnagin

[David Fox]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

...which brings us back to my July posting in this thread; we are certainly discussing a russet gun sling here. To add to what Comrade Jarnagin posted, M.1839 gun slings were also fabricated in white buff before the war. I lucked into an original at Saturday's Franklin show: same dimensions as the M.1839, including a 44" length, and with the pre-war squared off leather on the hook end. Without researching it, one presumes these were produced for some Army usage, probably the Marine Corps, and militia issue. White slings are occasionally found on Mississippi rifles, for instance. This sling has spiffied-up my Palmetto musket amazingly.

[David Jarnagin]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

David,

The buff slings you are talking about are made after July 4, 1864 since all of them bear inspectors marks. Yes they do match the pattern of 1839 slings and are considered Miss Rifle slings. One thought is they were made for Lincoln’s inauguration in 1865.

Gun slings except for these Mississippi slings were always in russet bag leather. The bag leather was a special type of leather so these were not made from the same type used in russet harness or artillery accouterments.

This is one of those that ranks up there with the black buff clipped waist belts being listed as a mid-1850’s production. These belts were made after July 4, 1864 with special permission by S.H. Young and if you look closely you will find the marker and inspectors marks. Both the gun slings and clipped waist belts have problems holding stamps due to the type of leather so sometimes it is really hard to find and this is the reason most of the Cav sabre belts of this period have ink markers stamps.

David Jarnagin

[Mark Choate]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

David (Fox),

I "think" that I saw the one that you are referring to at the show on Saturday a.m.

Just curious, the Palmetto musket that you mention, is it for display only or do you carry it in the field? I am wondering if you are using that original sling at events? :confused_

Mark

[David Fox]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Mark: no, I (as dumb as I am)wouldn't take the Palmetto into the field. It's the iron mounted sub-type, probably assembled from Benjamin Flagg's redundant bits and pieces and rifled in 1861 by Glaze, equipped with his distinctive block rear sight.

David: Re; your last post relating to a white buff M.1839 musket sling is a tad confusing. I'm just starting hitting the books on this thing. Would like the source for these slings being fabricated for Lincoln's second inauguration or any buff gun slings of any sort being made after the 1839 changes. The example I just acquired is in extraordinary condition and has always been white. There's not the vaguest remains of a manufacturer's or inspector's stamp and it has the pre-war squared-off leather at the hook. It somewhat strains my credulity they'd commission a one-time usage accoutrement, contracting for (and issuing) special slings, as much as the military dotes on "eye wash". I have seen several of these slings on Mississippi rifles. It's hard to imagine the U.S. government or any northern state contracting for a showy white buff, unnecessarily expensive gun sling for an obsolescent rifle with pre-war features(squared leather fold-over at the hook) in 1864 0r '65. But, then, what do I know.