Federal Russet Carbine Slings

[Steven Dacus]

In some recent research, the unit I have been looking at (11th OVC) stated that they were issued Russet colored carbine slings for their Spencer Rifles. Although I admit I have not personally inspected very many Spencer Rifles, the ones I have been able to inspect along with others that I have seen in pictures, I have not seen too many with the "Saddle Ring" for the sling. Also, I am wondering what manufacturer made the Russet colored carbine slings for these units in the west. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find this arsenal?

Attached are the two only known photos of this unit mounted (According to the local museum curator). Even though both of these are "Staged" there are still some interesting items (such as the reins in the first one).

I would be very interested in your thoughts and help on this issue. Thanks!

[David Fox]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

You noted in your second picture, this is, indeed, a Spencer rifle. Spencer rifles were manufactured with sling swivels of course, just like muskets...one let into the belly of the buttstock, one suspended from the middle barrel band. The issue slings were identical to M.1839 russet musket slings except, perhaps, for length. However, some Spencer rifles survive with sling rings for a carbine sling jury rigged into the stock at the breach. As I recall these were of western usage and carried by mounted riflemen. My bet is, however, if the color was russet, the writer referenced a variant M.1839 musket sling.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

I see a rather intesting saddle blanket in the first photo. Looks like some kinda cheap throw rug you would find in "domestics" at Walmart! I have played with this image some to try to discern what becomes of the blanket around his leg. It appears to have been cut or torn. Perhaps for easier access to his girth? Or, just worn out? Ideas? Anyone with a better photo editor than mine? Cool image.

It is really amazing how many of these Federal mounted cav images just keep coming to light after so long. Makes me confident there are more CS mounted images "out there" yet to be found.

Ken R Knopp

[Forrestcavalryman]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Is it just me or do the 1st troopers pants look kinda civillian?

[Steven Dacus]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Great comments and thoughts. I agree that the first photo looks pretty cheesy and I actually thought it was post CW but in talking to the source and seeing this image in other locations I had to accept that it was the unit I have been researching.

Thanks David for the info on the Slings.

Can anybody help with the how the reins are oriented in the first photo? Is this purely done from preference or did the military have anything that allowed the reins to be "looped" around like they are in the first photo?

[BobRoeder]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

I see a rather intesting saddle blanket in the first photo. Looks like some kinda cheap throw rug you would find in "domestics" at Walmart! I have played with this image some to try to discern what becomes of the blanket around his leg. It appears to have been cut or torn. Perhaps for easier access to his girth? Or, just worn out? Ideas? Anyone with a better photo editor than mine? Cool image.

Ken R Knopp

Without intending to divert from Steven's original inquiry, to me the saddle blanket look a lot like a Native American beaded blanket like the one shown on this site (top middle photo):

http://nmai.si.edu/exhibitions/horsenation/saddles.html

There are many other examples of this particular item which date throughout the 19th century (at least the last 3/4 of it), but the one shown at the above site actually predates the CW (ca. 1830-50).

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

WOW! Bob, you may be on to something here! This kind of Indian influenced blanket makes sense. It sure looks like the same thing at least in general. This decorative blanket might have been popular among these "western men". Wonder how an Ohio unit might have come into this type of thing? Thoughts? I know nothing of this unit but perhaps, they were west of the Ms River for some time? Maybe just individual "style points"?
The more I learn, the more I realize there is so much we really don't know (or have lost) about the horse equipment of the 19th century. There is no doubt there was alot of regional variations in saddlery that we often don't realize, over look or forget (perhaps more so than that of identifying horse breeds and the use of interchangeable terminology of the period). These people lived and traveled in fairly tight circles of exposure and influence. For example, the South was known for its bad roads, limited rail roads and stage lines, etc. Which is why the "Southern Riding Market" was so pronounced. In the north the population lived in cities, and towns or on small farms that were farily close together. The most common mode of travel there was by buggy, wagon, train, walking etc. "Riding" a horse in the north was unusual. While in the South the long distances and bad roads required more individuals to "ride".
At mid-century, in most areas of the country particularly west of the Allegheny Mtn's communication was slow to often non-existent which made regional influences all the more important. For example, that in the east such as Va. with its English and Yankee influences were very different from other areas. In the far west (then Mo., Iowa, Ark, etc.) ; the "old North West" (Ohio, Mich, Ind., Ill, etc.), the Southwest (Tex, and the territories), the "deep South" (La., Miss, Ala.); then Florida and Ga. and then the Indian Territory....my readings have suggested early influences such as in Spanish, Indian, fur trader influences, French, English, etc. often lead to very regional (or smaller) spheres where popularity, styles of equipment, nomenclature, horses and no doubt all of their applicable methods were strikingly different.
I don't think we can really truly understand and relate very well to these people and less so every day. Even now from my own childhood I can see we distance ourselves more every day from that kind of America, with our technology driven, TV then computer, "push button", instant news and gratification world.
Sorry to go on this rant but these obvious differences, so common back then, just "hit" me when I bagan to ponder this Ohio Yankee cavalryman riding an Indian influenced saddle blanket.
GREAT "educational/reminder" type photo!!!

Ken R Knopp

[Mississippian]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Ken,

The 11th Ohio served in Nebraska & Dakota Territories during the war, the fact that they were in those areas makes the indian blanket very plausible. Perhaps it was a cheap "trade" blanket he used as an extra saddle blanket?

Will MacDonald

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Well, there ya go....that "splains" the blanket. Thanks Will

Ken R Knopp

[Steven Dacus]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Great thoughts. I just now had an oppurtunity to come back to this thread and realized I should have prefaced this thread by stating that the 11th Ohio was originally part of the 6th Ohio cavalry but then separated to guard the transcontinental telegraph during the war. Much of which was in indian territory. This would then obviously explain the blanket as many of the mens diaries mentioned alot of trade with the locals.

On a different note, has anybody seen another picture of "rein rings" similar to that in the first picture? I know we use them today in modern riding for a variety of reasons, but this is the first military cavalry picture that ive seen with this set up. Thoughts?

[Mark Choate]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Steven,

Thanks for posting these photos. Seems the more we study and think we have things figured out, the more we find out we don't know. As to the rein rings, I cannot remember seeing them on any other Federal rig. Now, as soon as I say that, there will be three more photos posted that display the same. Thus is the nature of this never-ending study. It is a very humbling process to be sure.

I would say that just as has been mentioned by Ken and Will with the atypical blanket, the extreme western influence of where these fellows were stationed could explain some anomalies to the standard issue.

If anyone else out there has more data on this, please chime in.

Again, thank you for posting.

Mark

[Steven Dacus]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Mark,

That has definitely been the difficulty with our attempt to portray this unit. Nothing seems to be "Standard" even when they were originally outfitted in St. Louis (Each company had different carbines, pistols, slings, leather, etc.). I just like to get as much research done to find as much documentation as possible to help ease the many unknowns about this unit between '62-'66.

I appreciate all your comments!

[DnS475]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Is it russet or short-cutted tanning (i.e. something other than oak...)? I have a u.s headstall that once was quite black, and now every piece is a different color with some being quite brown in color (I can barely tell it at a glance from my d.k. russet c.s. halter).leather is funny sometimes, just like wood, eh??
I'm going to dry and redye the whole thing in iron & vinegar this winter in hopes of making it more uniform, but hey, ??

just my 2 cents. what is brown? what is russet? what is faded cheap black??? what is faded good black? I don't know.

dennis watson
kingston, tn

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

Steven -
Living in Georgia, I've had the opportunity to see and handle a bunch of Spencers. Once owned an 1865-dated carbine. Keep in mind that there were both "rifle" and "carbine" versions. Every carbine that I've ever seen has a saddle ring and bar.

[Steven Dacus]

Re: Federal Russet Carbine Slings

The russet color was what was written down when the QM recieved them, before issuing them out (i.e.- Brand new). So I am farily confident that they weren't faded Black leather (see attached QM Records- 15th item down the list).
As seen on the second picture on the origional post, and in finding the original spencer Rifles (1860's) that were issued to the unit, it is clear that they had Spencer rifles with the saddle ring on the rifle in which they would have used their russet slings.

The more I learn about this Ohio cav unit, the more I realize I don't know enough to accurately portray this unit. In just a couple year timeframe, they were issued Merrills, Spencer Rifles, Joslyn's, Enfields, Two remmington pistols (which is a huge "no-no" in eastern reenacting). 4 Sharps were issued, and I am still learning more weird items. It seems they were literally given whatever was at the "bottom of the Barrell" when they were issued their gear. (Note: they bought their own spencers initially, then the rest of the unit was issued them).

This unit (11th OVC) has been challenging at best to research. I can't wait to start on the 11th Kansas Cav. (My next unit that were also stationed out west).