For your viewing pleasure

[Outrider]

Emmanuel Garrison 22 OVI Co K Taken at Memphis Tennesse, wagon master of Engineer Department.

[Forrestcavalryman]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Uh-Oh.....Cue Jaguar Trousers :) This is really interesting to see a Military man riding.

[Tom Craig]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Paddy,
He MUST be a farb! Just goes to show you that you can never say never about most things in the CW.
Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Outrider]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

YUP.

I actually hesitated forever to post it as I would not want to be seen as encouraging such a thing. I certainly DO NOT but be that as it may,
There it is.



Slainte'

[rbruno]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Ok....now what? Seriously.

[Mark Choate]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Folks, don't panic here.

While I have not seen this particular photo before, I have seen two others of men of the period on similarly colored mounts. As you all know, our stance on authenticity is not always "did it exist in any form or fashion" but rather, "what was the typical and more prevalent example or impression." (One of the moderators here uses "NUG" as meaning Normal, Usual and General). Otherwise, you could literally have 100 people wearing the oft mentioned "cheetah-skin" trousers, etc.

So, while I think most of us have known that horses of this ilk did exist, they were as rare as hen's-teeth, so our stance on what is acceptable and tolerated in the authentic cavalry community should still hold.

Paddy, thanks for sending this one around.

regards,
Mark

[Forrestcavalryman]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Okay Mark, we have the proof. I am showing up at the next event with my saber tied to the saddle, cheetah skin trousers, a velvet shell jacket, a loud colored tablecloth shirt, and on a painted horse!....:sarcastic

[kaelin]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

I realize this image was taken in Memphis BUT how do we know this image was taken during the Civil War? Just asking?

[Mark Choate]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Kaelin,
Good point, but the prevalent issue here is that horses of this coloring did exist in that relative period of time, but in miniscule numbers compared to other colors. So, please see my previous post for our necessary continued stance on the matter.

Andrew,
If you do, I will castrate you.................. :confused_

regards,
Mark

[Outrider]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Supposedly, and I have no way of knowing for sure, the image was taken while Garrison was serving at Memphis then sent home to his wife and passed down through her family until it was sold at auction. I cannot verify it and have no information beyond what isposted and what I was able to find on Garrison's service but, as Mark points out, the only reason I did post it was I have heard too many times that they were not around east of the Mississippi until a later period. That's all.

I said I hesitated to post it until now because I dont want to be seen as encouraging the use of paints for CW cavalry 'enacting. I wholeheartedly agree with Mark in that they were very uncommon as any adults riding horse. I have seen them referenced as chiuldrens mounts but I suspect they are talking about ponies anyway.
I have literally hundreds of images of mounted civilians ranging from the early 1850's through the early 1870's and this is the only paint I have come across until I get into the 80's and 90's and those are out west for the most part.

I just thought it was interesting. I wish I could make out the saddle better. Not sure just what is going there.

[Mark Choate]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Patrick,

While a slight departure from the subject line, I am curious as to your collection of civy images. Are they all stored electronically or are some of them actual plates/photos that you have acquired? That sounds like quite a collection. I actually am more drawn to the civilian images than many of the military ones.

By the way, it was good to see you and work with you at Westville. Lots of fun!!

Mark

[Ken Knopp]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Patrick, Cool Photo!!

As all of us know, bays, greys, sorrels were preferred but with the high attrition rates, there were many attempts during the war- some successful, to bring horses in from the west for use as Federal cavalry mounts. These included "spanish" horses and maybe some Indian ponies. Memphis makes sense here. Perhaps this is one of those. This was even true for the Confederacy until Vicksburg although there was little real effort, wasted opportunities and thus minimal at best success.

I can recall reading somewhere about troopers in Nebraska and Kansas referring to riding Indian ponies and even using Indian saddlery. No doubt any of this was the result of necessity and of course likely a rare and abhorrent occurance. I would assume that a cavalryman's pride and also the fear of making a rather conspicuous target might also enter into the aversive thinking of the cavalryman regarding such mounts.
I tend to agree with Mark about our approach. That is .....NUG. Of course, some units (geographic "Plains " consideration) and certainly exact first person portrayals would/should deviate.
Pointing out another detail or two......The man is riding a McClellan with bags and I know I see some kind of running martingale but the bridle configuration is really strange. Hard to tell but is that also a snaffle, a civilian headstall and rosettes? Kind of a strange rig. Anyone see this? Ideas?


Ken R Knopp

[Tom Craig]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Paddy,
All joking aside, thanks for posting the picture, it is a cool one. As I said in my original comment, you can't really say "never" with most things CW. I had (loaned out to some scurrilous rascal that never returned it) a book written in '65 that was a humorous account of a cavalry outfit. In it, there was one fellow who was described as having been given a "spotted circus pony" as a mount, and that that horse had been trained to do all manner of tricks. The green rider managed to press all the wrong "buttons" and the horse tore apart the formation, etc. Sounds like an Appaloosa to me, based on the description.

For good reasons we often black ball certain items of material culture, or in this case horses, as being beyond the pale historically, when in fact they did exist, and were done, but could easily be carried away with by farbs. Sabres on saddles are a good example, as are the dreaded "stampede string." I kind of think that we do our impressions a disservice the way we make things so generic and homogenized, but I understand the rationale behind it.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Michael Comer]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Wonder if this guy got laughed at or was the butt of some jokes because of his mount.

[Mark Choate]

Re: For your viewing pleasure

Probably about as much as he would have had he been on a zebra or camel.................