Derringer Rifle?

[rbruno]

I posted this in the cavalry forum cause the report is for the 17th VA Cav, but hopefully more will chime in. The 17th was issued what looks to be 3 Derringer Rifles. I googled "Derringer rifle" and basically got all the pocket pistols we are probably all familiar with. Does anyone have any information one this type of long arm? I had saved another report from the 17th but can't seem to put my hands on it right now and there were a few more of these guns mentioned. I am part of a living history at Monocacy this summer and have been researching the 17th for that event.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

Hallo!

Likely a Henry Deringer M1817 Contract Rifle, a contract variation of the U.S. Flintlock Rifle Model 1817 aka M1817 Common Rifle. Possibly, I suspect, converted to percussion.

While most famous for his "derringers," Deringer made more than just derringers. Based on his work on M1814 Riles (aka M1803 Type II) Deringer received a contract for the M1817 Rifle in July of 1819 for a puny order of 1,800 t the rate of 100 a month until filled. That was followed b a second contract in April 1821 for 2,000 stands, and a third in August of 1823 for 3,000 to be completed over five years.

Perhaps oddly enough, Deringer was called upon to make then again in March of 1840 for 6,000 at the rate of 1200 a year for five years. For this batch, Deringer was allowed to get away with some shenanigans such as using other than M1817 parts or outside sources for parts. Plus mixing parts such as M1814 and M1817 Common Rifle parts in the mix on 4th contract pieces. But all in all, he did deliver all 12,800 called for in the four contracts,

IIRC, there are no references to a percussion version, BUT it would appear Deringer had tried to get additional contracts but failed. A number of percussion alterations are known, but not their sources. Some believe that they are random pieces, others believe possibly the result of a small unknown state contract somewhere sometime.

Numbers of M1817 Rifles went to states, including southern states under the 1808 Militia Act. And a small number later turn up locally altered to percussion for the Confederacy.
Some were still on hand at Federal arsenals, such as the 5,000 at Benecia Arsenal in San Francisco in July of 1861.

Curt

[rbruno]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

Thanks Curt,
I think I spelled his name wrong with I googled the first time because I found some stuff this time. I have a feeling this regiment had quite a few. The ordnance also mentions MS rifles and the overwhelming about the of the ammunition was .54 cal. Thanks for the info. Sounds like another arm that was in service that is not being reproduced today.

[Fred.Lucas]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

Curt,

Perhaps you have this at hand, but are there not some American Fur Company, or perhaps Indian Presents rifles made by Derringer as well that were percussion?

Fred, er Luke, er Griz :-)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

Hallo!

Yes, Deringer made his living after 1806 with longrifles, M1814 and M1817 Common Rifles, and Indian Trade rifles before he got famous for his derringers pistols.

He had a number of contracts for trade rifles used in U.S. Government trade obligations. I would have to break out the reference books to check on any AFC connections.

Curt

[Mississippian]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

I've seen quite a few C.S. regiments that were issued a sprinkling of Derringer rifles, particularly in the Western theater. I seem to recall several hundred being sent to East Tennessee in 1862. I'll have to find those documents....

Will MacDonald

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

Will,
Any more news on finding those documents about their use east and wesst?

Would these rifles have been using .54 ball ammo or .54 minie, or whatever the quartermaster had on hand?

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

Here is a great example from the fine establishment "College Hill Arsenal" by Mess'r Tim Prince:

https://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=1478

[Hoosier]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

Speaking of available Derringer Rifles, in Arkansas, in February of 61', Confederate agents seized from the arsenal at Little Rock over 10,00 weapons including:

125 Rifled m1817 (Derringer) Muskets

(pgs. 39-41 of Osprey's "The Confederate Army 1861-65 (4): Virginia & Arkansas.").

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: Derringer Rifle?

According to an Ordinance Report of the 89th VA Militia on November 28, 1861 they had two Derringer Rifles in their ranks. I believe they are converted to percussion as flintlocks are listed separately.