Interesting cavalry shotgun

[lancer]

This may be of interest to some of you. I have just acquired this shotgun, it was made in the 1850s, it was made in Birmingham. It has 21in damascus barrels, walnut stock is 69cal or 14 gauge. It is also fitted with a saddle bar and ring, also the nipples are military top hat size. It appears to be in original condition.
Any comments from you experts out there.



John. maddocks.

[Tom Craig]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

Thanks for sharing. I know virtually nothing about original shotguns, but I think that this is neat because it has a saddle ring. The ring makes all the sense in the world if you were going to carry such a weapon for any length of time on horseback.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[rwages]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

Truly a beautiful shotgun and more than likely Confederate in it's lifetime. I have had the pleasure and privilege of holding several documented Confederate shotguns over the years and the whistles and bells are there. The saddle ring is intriguing indeed as I have thought of doing this to the Pedersoli I carry now.

Richard Wages
5th Georgia Cavalry

[Jimmayo]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

I like it! Did you acquire it in the UK?

[Mississippian]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

Cool shotgun. Do you think the saddle ring is an arsenal add on? I know of shotguns being collected and repaired by the various CS arsenals but I wasn't sure if they added stuff like saddle rings to them.

Will MacDonald

[arkangel33]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

The book by Dr. Murphy on Confederate Carbines has a Chapter devoted to Shotguns. It would be a good book to pick up if you want to know more about CS shotguns. A couple of the old Albaugh books talk about shotguns as well specifically the ones sold through Samuel Sutherland.

[lancer]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

I like it! Did you acquire it in the UK?

Hi, no it originally came from the States.

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Cool shotgun. Do you think the saddle ring is an arsenal add on? I know of shotguns being collected and repaired by the various CS arsenals but I wasn't sure if they added stuff like saddle rings to them.

Will MacDonald

Yes almost certainly an arsenal add on.

[JLH]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

In the last 3 weeks I have cut down 2 1840's Shotguns for use in the 8th Texas Cavalry. When finished they have the look of an original Cavalry piece. So be careful when finding one for a full length version is only $100 to $300. I will post pics when finished.

[T.Kern]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

why would an arsenal add that when it would be much easier and less expensive to just put a gun sling on and carry it across the back. I feel most were carried this way and most were not cut down bc it hurts there use for longer range using buck and ball, just like a smoothbore musket. I have lots of questions whether this is actually confederate....interesting shotgun but w/o some provenance questionable . could just be a civilian item
Todd Kern

[Kanawha Riflemen]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

Here is a shotgun found on the Monterey Pass Battlefield, just one day after the close of Gettysburg. Old South Antiques has it in their private collection. Link: www.oldsouthantiques.com/osnfsp6.htm

John A. Miller, Director
Monterey Pass Battlefield

https://www.montereypassbattlefield.org

[JLH]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

why would an arsenal add that when it would be much easier and less expensive to just put a gun sling on and carry it across the back.
Todd Kern

Sir, for a foot soldier it would be fine to sling it, but for the cavalry it would be most difficult to hold the reigns and fiddle with trying to ready a weapon on one's back. Whereas if the shotgun is hanging to one side, then it is very easy to simply raise it and fire.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

That looks typical of the type. There is an invoice from 1861 in one of the books, I think it's The Unfinished Fight Volume I, from the state of Alabama paying a civilian $20 for a shotgun, presumably issued to someone lacking any sort of firearm at all.

[rbruno]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

Sir, for a foot soldier it would be fine to sling it, but for the cavalry it would be most difficult to hold the reigns and fiddle with trying to ready a weapon on one's back. Whereas if the shotgun is hanging to one side, then it is very easy to simply raise it and fire.

Actually, it is not that hard. There is plenty of documentation in the form of ordnance issues and drawings of CS troopers carrying their long arm, both rifles/carbines and shotguns across their backs. Yes, they were issued carbine slings to be able to carry a weapon slung to the side. But certainly many manage to handle their guns across their backs. And, I believe the Robinson/CS Sharps was issued with a swivel screwed into the but to be able to use a gun sling even though this was originally designed to use a carbine sling and a snap hook. I have carried two different carbines across my back and have carried sharps slung to the slide. Once you get used to one or the other or both, it becomes second nature. Those troopers used and carried those weapons every day. If I can get used to one method for a weekend of riding, I bet they could do it with their eyes closed.

[JLH]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

I agree with you Rob, but not all horsemen are the same. I reference true Cavalry and the fighting on horseback. Those on horseback and carrying of long arms are of the Mounted Riflemen, who were to ride to the action, dismount and fight as infantry. I have had family members in both such units and have done extensive research. Last night I was reading about Texans slinging sawed off shotguns across their saddle horns (being Hope saddles) At the start of the war, Texan found rusty flintlock in the captured US arsenals. So fair to say for a bit the cavalry rode with crappy full length rifles but those were dropped quickly and replaced with civilian shotgun. We will be doing battle next week and I will post some pics of shotgun and how they were carried.

[IowaYank]

Re: Interesting cavalry shotgun

I would disagree that you would get rid of a full length rifle in favor of a civilian shotgun. In fact many commands throughout the war were doing the opposite. A shotgun has a very limited range compared to a full length rifle.