Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

[greenmountainboy]

Hi all,

Been a long time subscriber but dont really post much usually just read. However I had the chance to purchase this saddle cheap. I am wondering if this could have been custom made, it had Star conchos all over the saddle it has leather skirting that looks like a Confederate officers saddle blanket, it has iron hardware ect...

I couldn't resist to buy this at the price I did, for some reason I have seen something like this before or read a description thats fits this saddle.

SO my question is, could this be a Confederate officers Muley saddle or just a mid 1800's civilian plantation saddle?

Thanks all, and keep up the awesome threads!

~ GreenMountainBoy

Dear Mr. Maitland, as a long time viewer but infrequent poster, you should be aware of the cardinal rule of the forum is that every post must be signed with your name. GreenMountainBoy isn't your given name. Please take this opportunity to review the rules of the forum. They really aren't that burdensome. Sign your posts, play nice and don't speak farbism are the big three. - Silas Tackitt, one of the moderators

[rbruno]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

It is hard to say just based on the picture. Unfortunately many of the people that know more about saddles then I don't often frequent this forum anymore. How is it rigged? It almost looks like it is quarter strap rigged. What does the underside like? Is it padded? Hard to tell the type of tree. You may want to send a picture directly to Ken Knopp or maybe Stuart Lillie who are very good at identify traits and styles of saddles. Again, I am no expert and it is just seems that so very few of CS officer/civilian saddles actually survive from the period. And adding to the issue is many patterns and saddles with slight modifications are made post war that it is hard to identify one that was around in the 1850s.

[IowaYank]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

My guess would be post war catalog saddle. In college one of my professors had original Sears catalogs from the late 1800-early 1900s and you saw many types of similar saddles. Many of them do share similar characteristics of period saddles however.

[greenmountainboy]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?




Here are a few more pictures of the saddle.


KMaitland

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Hi,

This was my thought also, however I have browsed most all online Sears catalogs as far back as 1887, and Montgomery Wards as far as 1875 online archived all mostly horned saddles with a few English saddles.

It very well and most likely not be a Officers saddle, but in the event it is not it would be kind of neat knowing its history. Thanks for your knowledgeable input.

KMaitland

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Yes Silas,

You are correct, I apologize thank you for the reaffirmation .

KMaitland

[greenmountainboy]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

I suppose while I am posting this saddle, I will post another one that is more like ones that Ken Knopp posted on a previous post in this forum some time ago.


KMaitland

[Mark Choate]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

Mr. Maitland,

Your first saddle is a deviation off of the Muley style (French for "hornless") but is without question a post war saddle and I would estimate 1890 - 1910 in timeframe. Looks "rideable" with a little work and is quite beautiful with lots of tooling work and décor.

The second saddle looks to be a McBride saddle which also is built off of a variation of the Muley tree and is also a postwar saddle although there is some evidence that these were just coming about in the 1860's in limited number. These were very common in middle Tennessee and then spread into other parts of the southeast.

Very nice saddles, indeed.
regards,
Mark

[greenmountainboy]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

Thanks you for your knowledge about these saddles. It is much appreciated.

Would you happen to know possible makers of the first saddle?

I have checked online archival Sears and Montgomery Ward catalogs as far back as they have been published and cannot see any close matches.

I would like to try to identify this saddle if at all possible.

Thank you for your time.

Regards

[Mark Choate]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

Kelly,

Unless there is a makers mark somewhere tucked underneath the folds of leather, there would be virtually no way of knowing who made it. In modern day, we are accustomed to markings, serial numbers, model numbers, patent restrictions, etc that limit the field of who is making what, when and where. However, many of these civilian saddles of the 18th and 19th centuries are made by individuals or small cottage industries that could be produced by any of hundreds of sources. While the design of the tree came into being earlier in the century, the industrious folks throughout the country often started making saddles patterned off of what they had seen and what was popular. This tended to be more the case with the civilian saddle than the military production saddles, but not exclusively. The Jenifer saddle, for example, once designed by Capt Jenifer, was copied as the war went on and that is why today we see so many different deviations off of that basic style. Really tough to categorize and identify as a result of this.

In summary, you might invert the saddle under good lighting and spread the layers of leather back to see if you see any type of makers mark (be careful with the dry leather as it can tear easily if forced). This would be about your only hope of verification. Oh, and I would suggest a good cleaning using saddle soap and warm water. Then let it dry partially (but not bone dry) and then apply a coat of natural neets foot oil (not neets foot compound). Do not use any petroleum based item on this saddle.

regards,
Mark

[greenmountainboy]

Re: Equisite Morgan Muley? Officers saddle? Civilian PLantation Saddle?

Thanks, I use glycerine soap on my regular saddles how do you think this would work on the Muley type saddle? I did separate the leather some as the leather isn't that dry, and it is aa rawhide rapped tree with rawhide stitching along the bars just like the Jenifers or McClellan. I am going to further my search carefully and see if I can find anything more on it on it.

Regards
Kelly

Update: so I see no maker mark , the conchos look to possibly be made of brass all iron hardware nailed seat, looks like someone carved a XI in the seat. and I found this similarly made saddle picture online I attached it to this post, it is stuffed in on google I think this is from Ken Knopps website, however when I click on this saddle picture I get a page full of just words, but the first sentences do says this 19th-cent-saddlery


Appearing in catalogs shortly after the Civil War very little is known about these saddles except that they were almost certainly named after Confederate partisan ranger, Col. John S Mosby. The Mosby had its own unique tree design with pommel similarities to the Whitman, Morgan and sometimes the Kilgore. Other normal distinctive features were rounded skirts, heavy wood stirrups and its trademark decorative quarter strap rigging with rounded leather hand loops, (for reins or halter leads).