Post or not to post

[spadegrip]

I'm a novice at riding horses. I have taken lessons and I have ridden out West so I know how to get on and off a horse and that's about it. My question is riding in the cavalry in the 1860's, did they post or ride Western for lack of a better term. I found posting more comfortable in my limited experience. But I would like to hear from the experts. Thanks.

[spadegrip]

Re: Post or not to post

I'm a novice at riding horses. I have taken lessons and I have ridden out West so I know how to get on and off a horse and that's about it. My question is riding in the cavalry in the 1860's, did they post or ride Western for lack of a better term. I found posting more comfortable in my limited experience. But I would like to hear from the experts. Thanks.

Maybe I'm asking the question incorrectly or thus is the wrongs discussion category?

[Michael Comer]

Re: Post or not to post

Jacob, since folks haven't checked in on this forum to see your post, I would recommend sending a private message to Dan Chmelar. He goes by IowaYank on here.

[spadegrip]

Re: Post or not to post

Jacob, since folks haven't checked in on this forum to see your post, I would recommend sending a private message to Dan Chmelar. He goes by IowaYank on here.

Thanks for the guidance.

[Tom Craig]

Re: Post or not to post

John,

Traffic on this forum is down lately, so that is the reason for the lack of response to your question.

The period manuals (Pointsett's and Cookes) don't make any reference to posting, so it wasn't taught by the manual at least. Posting did in fact exist in the period, and doubtless some men who knew how to ride prior to the war may have posted in their riding. Sidney Morris Davis (6th US Cavalry) complained bitterly in his book about long hours spent trotting and how miserable it was and how jarring, which would indicate that he wasn't posting.

So the simple answer is that troopers may have posted, but it wasn't part of the manual, and wasn't official technique. As a reenactor I have posted in a McLellan saddle from time to time and lived to tell the tale.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[spadegrip]

Re: Post or not to post

Many thanks for your reply.

[rbruno]

Re: Post or not to post

John,
I would echo what Tom said about the manuals. The riding section in Pointsett's in particular is very basic. Vaulting and some use of leg and hand to direct the horse is about it. A little bit about posture and center of gravity, but I would say this is the basics of actually riding the horse. To over generalize the point, it might also somewhat depend on if you are talking CS or US. The CS cav in the beginning of the war in general were considered better horseman. Again that is a broad stroke. So, you could guess that more men in the ranks and the officers would have the finer points of riding taught to them as they were growing up. The US cav didn't start out with as many "horsemen" in their ranks so Tom's example of a guy being beat to death trotting is a good example. So, I think either would be correct and seen in either side of the cavalry during the war.

[spadegrip]

Re: Post or not to post

Thanks again. You would thing posting would be easier on the rider and horse. But what do I know.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Post or not to post

Hallo!

When reading "cavalry" histories/memoirs, I cannot recall much if anything, ever, (use of a Universal so noted) being given to the "nuts and bolts" or "mechanics'' or "art" of fine equestrian/dressage horsemanship.

IMHO, I tend to see distinctions divided by socio-economic class. At times, in my "English' riding classes, they refer to "posting" as "plantation style" from where the planter tours his estate looking aristocratically elegant posting up and down. Versus say working class folks who are self taught, being taught by say their fathers rather than an riding academy instructor on the finer points of dressage. Then kick that up to the numbers of Northern city dwellers who saw far more working horses than they ever, if ever, rode until as an "Army" recruit. And then learned how the Army rode- based on this manual or that instructor(s).

Unfortunately, I am not a cavalryman, and learned to post at a riding academy long after sitting a cavalry saddle. My question to modern cavalrymen is...

How easy or difficult is it to "post' when the stirrups are "low" versus the "higher" position on an English saddle? (Or how fast does one develop and build up one's upper leg muscles to do the "heavy lifting" as the forward momentum movement of the horse aids in swing up off the saddle?)

Which takes my mind to the "sitting trot" and how one often sees Hollywood actors who do not ride and who have minimal "for the scene" quick training bouncing up and down really badly.

:) :)

Curt

[Tom Craig]

Re: Post or not to post

Curt,

While my stirrups aren't as low as some people made ride with, they are not as high as when I ride English. That said I find no difficulty at all posting while riding as really you post more from your thighs anyway.

More than watching movies with bad riders, I like going to events and watching staff officer types who don't know how to ride...they do all manner of fascinating things on horse back.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[rbruno]

Re: Post or not to post

Interesting discussion in the finer points of riding. While I am not expert on posting cause I ride a gaited horse, the times I did post, the rhythm of the horse does help when working with the horse. I have posted in my Mac and my stirrups are low. You really don't have to lift your self that far out of the saddle which brings me to the next point. Riding styles have change over time. When you look at paintings or photos of hunting and jumping in years past, the rider is more in what I think is called a center seat and upright position when jumping an obstacle. Now when you watch competitions, the rider is half way up the horses neck when they go over a jump. They lean so far forward I don't know how they don't fall forward off the horse. I don't know if posting would also fall into this category as changing over time, but to me some of the show ring posting is exaggerated for form and looks vs what is need for riding. Just another thought.

[Tom Craig]

Re: Post or not to post

Rob,

Interesting point. And you're right about not needing to clear the saddle by that much to make it comfortable and practical. And you're certainly right about the centered seat versus the modern forward seat.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Longrope]

Re: Post or not to post

I had this conversation 20 years ago with Nick Nichols, ( now Aden) and Troy Sorbello (now deceased). Nick's take on it was that riders didn't post in the 19th century, his evidence was that most images from the period show the riders with extremely long stirrups, making it impossible to post a trot.

[wavey1us]

Re: Post or not to post

From a military perspective, you really do not see the training of posting until the early 1900s. This is after the US Army has sent officers over to Europe to train and ride. The US Army officers come back and begin to integrate their "lessons learned" into Army training manual. I have a copy of the English translation of the French Riding Manual completed by one of those US Army officers, circa 1912. I will review the manuals that I have to determine when the "post" was integrated into training.

[rbruno]

Re: Post or not to post

All,
Disclaimer, I am not saying by any means that this is the end or definitive research on posting, but.... I googled the history of posting and didn't get much. This article gives one opinion as to where posting comes from. I found a couple other articles, but most recount this same explanation. If we think this could be a possible explanation, it at least predates the CW. Again, just food for thought and not saying this is a great example of research. It is a blog of all things.

http://www.meredithmanor.edu/features/articles/drm/riding_trot.asp