hardware bluing recipe

[J.H.Berger]

Hi comrades,
does anyone have the original formula for bluing the iron hardware of the M1859 horse equipment?
I need it for an Allegheny arsenal saddle plus gear.
Best
J.H.Berger

[GBaylor]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

Hank Kluin at Burgess Saddlery knows the period recipe for blueing the iron hardware.

John Sweeney

[J.H.Berger]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

Hank Kluin at Burgess Saddlery knows the period recipe for blueing the iron hardware.

John Sweeney

Thank you, I will ask him then.
Regards
Jan H. Berger
Hornist

[Mike N]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

I'm sure others will correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that while the specifications called for the iron hardware to be blued, in practice it was generally "japanned," being painted with a thick black lacquer.

Regards,

Mike Nugent

[AzTrooper]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

Mike, I tend to agree with You , all of the origional hardware I have observed looks to have been japanned as You mentioned.I suppose it is possible that some hardware might have been blued but I have never seen it documented anywhere. I am going to have to go look thru my equipment manual and some other reference books I have, but I seem to remember somewhere in one or more of them stating that the iron hardware was japanned, but that could just be my bad memory.
Respectfully, John Rogers

I'm sure others will correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that while the specifications called for the iron hardware to be blued, in practice it was generally "japanned," being painted with a thick black lacquer.

Regards,

Mike Nugent

[AzTrooper]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

Howdy all,
So far the only reference that I have found that refers to the coating or finish on buckles on horse equipment is in reference to Head gear. I found the following reference in The Horse Soldier by Randy Steffen. Under Head Gear it states ...."All the leather is black bridle leather,not less than 0.1 inch thick, and the buckles are malleable flat bar buckles, blued." The references that I have found so far that pertain to hardware on the saddle state only that that the parts were "malleable iron" with no mention of weather the parts were blued or japanned. All the origional hardware that I own and that I have seen first hand is japanned or at least it apprears to be. I will keep looking, but for now this is all that I have found.
Respectfully, John Rogers

Mike, I tend to agree with You , all of the origional hardware I have observed looks to have been japanned as You mentioned.I suppose it is possible that some hardware might have been blued but I have never seen it documented anywhere. I am going to have to go look thru my equipment manual and some other reference books I have, but I seem to remember somewhere in one or more of them stating that the iron hardware was japanned, but that could just be my bad memory.
Respectfully, John Rogers

[J.H.Berger]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

Howdy all,
So far the only reference that I have found that refers to the coating or finish on buckles on horse equipment is in reference to Head gear. I found the following reference in The Horse Soldier by Randy Steffen. Under Head Gear it states ...."All the leather is black bridle leather,not less than 0.1 inch thick, and the buckles are malleable flat bar buckles, blued." The references that I have found so far that pertain to hardware on the saddle state only that that the parts were "malleable iron" with no mention of weather the parts were blued or japanned. All the origional hardware that I own and that I have seen first hand is japanned or at least it apprears to be. I will keep looking, but for now this is all that I have found.
Respectfully, John Rogers

Comrades,
the point is, if a piece of hardware was blued it is certainly not visible any more today! The only hint in that direction would be a buckle without any japan finish on it but no rust pitting either. This would indicate that it was not japanned because this finish does not wear off easily.
I have heard that they have changed the blueing method to japanning early in the war because the blueing really was no preservation for the hardsware.
Hopefully somebody finds the missing link;-)Regards
J.H.Berger
Hornist

[CJSchumacher]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

Howdy all,
So far the only reference that I have found that refers to the coating or finish on buckles on horse equipment is in reference to Head gear. I found the following reference in The Horse Soldier by Randy Steffen. Under Head Gear it states ...."All the leather is black bridle leather,not less than 0.1 inch thick, and the buckles are malleable flat bar buckles, blued." The references that I have found so far that pertain to hardware on the saddle state only that that the parts were "malleable iron" with no mention of weather the parts were blued or japanned. All the origional hardware that I own and that I have seen first hand is japanned or at least it apprears to be. I will keep looking, but for now this is all that I have found.
Respectfully, John Rogers

That referance is from the 1861 Ordinance Manual. You can find the reference to jappaning hardware on pg. 175 of the Ordinance Manual.

However, upon further study of the ordinance manual as is pertains to the '59 Horse Equipments and numerous originals studied in person and photographed...I think that only certain hardware was to be jappaned, the rest blued. Why...I have no idea...!!!

What I can say is hardware mentioned for jappaning tends to be pieces that come into contact with other metal or pieces that need the "smooth" protective finish. For instance...jappaning is only mentioned in reference to the 2 crupper-rings, which come into contact with the staples in the rear of the side bars, the curry comb (no idea why here other than protection from rough use, mud, dander, etc. and that it was to be made of sheet iron) and the picket pin (obvious reasons). Question is...why are the rings to be attached with staples to the front end of the side bars not jappaned, but blued??

Strange....

Interestingly enough...I've seen many original hardware pieces which appear to be just blued ie. no jappaning to be seen...bar buckles, foot-staples, saddle-bag studs, hitching strap ring, etc...all of which as they were called for in the manual.

Tough question...with evidence to both sides. One conclusion I would make, however, is that I highly doubt that all pieces were jappaned and/or all pieces were blued.

Hope this helps discussion.

[wildrose]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

That referance is from the 1861 Ordinance Manual. You can find the reference to jappaning hardware on pg. 175 of the Ordinance Manual.

However, upon further study of the ordinance manual as is pertains to the '59 Horse Equipments and numerous originals studied in person and photographed...I think that only certain hardware was to be jappaned, the rest blued. Why...I have no idea...!!!

What I can say is hardware mentioned for jappaning tends to be pieces that come into contact with other metal or pieces that need the "smooth" protective finish. For instance...jappaning is only mentioned in reference to the 2 crupper-rings, which come into contact with the staples in the rear of the side bars, the curry comb (no idea why here other than protection from rough use, mud, dander, etc. and that it was to be made of sheet iron) and the picket pin (obvious reasons). Question is...why are the rings to be attached with staples to the front end of the side bars not jappaned, but blued??

Strange....

Interestingly enough...I've seen many original hardware pieces which appear to be just blued ie. no jappaning to be seen...bar buckles, foot-staples, saddle-bag studs, hitching strap ring, etc...all of which as they were called for in the manual.

Tough question...with evidence to both sides. One conclusion I would make, however, is that I highly doubt that all pieces were jappaned and/or all pieces were blued.

Hope this helps discussion.

I think we have to look first at what metal we are dealing with. Most of the hardware that is used on the McClellan saddle was brass and softer than iron. The bluing receipt called for a solution made up of ammonia water and copper carbonate to blue brass. This will work on brass but not on iron hardware which would have to be painted.

The curry comb was made of sheet iron and the picket pin of steel which would not take the blueing. The 2 crupper-rings would have taken a lot of stress so were possibly of iron which would be stronger than the softer brass.

Just and Idea

Bobby Rose

[CJSchumacher]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

I think we have to look first at what metal we are dealing with. Most of the hardware that is used on the McClellan saddle was brass and softer than iron. The bluing receipt called for a solution made up of ammonia water and copper carbonate to blue brass. This will work on brass but not on iron hardware which would have to be painted.

The curry comb was made of sheet iron and the picket pin of steel which would not take the blueing. The 2 crupper-rings would have taken a lot of stress so were possibly of iron which would be stronger than the softer brass.

Just and Idea

Bobby Rose

Good thoughts, but I have to disagree that "Most of the hardware...was brass and softer than iron."

The only brass for the '59 Mac would be the shield, eustusians, pins, and screws for the skirts and foot-staples. All other hardware, including that on the halter, bridle, crupper, pommel and cantle plates (on the tree, under rawhide), surcingle, and even roller buckles for spur straps were of iron.

Can I ask where you got your information?

[ferraius]

Re: hardware bluing recipe

The picket pin was not made of steel. It was made from a piece of iron that was hand forged and there would obviously be no reason to blue it. It was made to drive in the ground. Iron will take blueing though if filed and polished smooth and then blued. Even heat will do this.

Jon O'Harra