Cavalry shotguns

[NC5thCav]

Does anyone know of any correct reproduction shotguns available that could be used for a Confederate immpresion? From what I have seen on ordanance reports as well as first person accounts, shotguns were one of the most popular arms for Confederate cavalry throughout the war, but seem to be under-represented today.

Derek Carpenter, NC

"First at Bethel, farthest at Gettysburg and Chickamauga, last at Appomatox"

[Johan Steele]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

I think that depends upon whether you're doing early or late war... Forrests ordanance return showed only two shotguns in 1864... Literally almost every kind of carbine seemed present though as well as Enfields, Austrians etc. ammo in .52, .54,.56, .58... I would pity the ordanace officer.

THat said I'm not certain that I've seen a good repro muzzleloading shotgun... but originals can be had fairly inexpensivly and are often quite servicable. My father has purchased two excellent english made w/in the last five years and both are quite servicable. I've also run accross them often enough at gunshows to say it shouldn't be difficult to find one for less than $1000.

Good Luck

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

I agree. Most evidence, including returns, for Confederate forces show shotguns were used mostly early war. The Second Georgia Cavalry, for example was originally armed with shotguns and sabers (and, ironically, were not issued uniforms until May of 1864!).

In the early war days in the south, you fought with "...what you brung from home..." and shotguns were prevalent.

As tactics evolved, especially in the western theater, the shotgun became an anacronism due to its limited range. As Forrest and others developed the tactic of mounted infantry, the shotgun's range did not compare with that of the rifle-muskets carried by their federal opponents.

Mid to late war returns, ORs and anecdotal history after the war showed that most CS cavalry units so armed ditched the shotguns as soon as possible for "field appropriated" federal arms.

The following inspection report submitted by CS Colonel CC Jones regarding Wheeler's command in January and February, 1865 (as they shadowed Sherman's March through the Carolinas):

"ARMS
As a general rule, there is a great want of uniformity in the armament
of this command. The principal weapons in the hands of the men are the
long and short Enfield rifle, the Springfield musket, the Austrian
rifle, a variety of breech loading rifles, viz: the Spencer, the
Burnside, the Sharp, Maynard &c. and various kinds of pistols. Many if
not all of the breech loading rifles and pistols are captured arms. For
some of them, as the Spencer, there is a great difficulty in procuring
the requisite amount of ammunition, the supply now in the cartridge
boxes of the men and the ordnance train having been obtained exclusively
by capture...
...With such a variety of calibers, and in view of the fact that the
supply is at best but limited and uncertain, for at least some of the
guns mentioned, it becomes almost a matter of impossibility to secure at
all times the proper amount of ammunition...
...Many of the arms now in the hands of the men are claimed by them as
private property, having been secured by them by capture, purchase or
exchange...
...Captured arms are not turned over in very many respects as they
should be to the ordnance officer. Indifferent or heavy guns are
privately exchanged by the men upon the battlefield and elsewhere for
light carbines and other guns more suited to the fancy of the captor,
and thus where uniformity of armament existed, there occurs an
interpolation of guns of various calibers, descriptions and ranges.
...In this command there are a great many fair Spencer rifles and other
breech loading weapons of superior character for which ammunition might
be conveniently manufactured in our arsenals."

- - CC Jones, Col. CSA, February 1865

Ironically it seems that many men were unarmed (thus serving as horse holders) rather than being armed with even shotguns. One might infer that since the returns show no shotgun ammunition, that the shotgun became a well-made club in the best of circumstances during the mid to late war period.

There are some original period shotguns available from various resources - antiqueguns.com, gun shows, etc. I own one that I used for a Second Georgia impression at Perryville in 2001. A word of CAUTION - if you buy an original, I'd think twice about loading and firing it. Due to the construction methodology combined with the fact that the weapon is now 140+/- years old, it could literally blow up in your face!

My 2¢

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

I'd like to add a thougth here. When shotguns are used in the hobby, it seems almost universal with reeactors to use the sawed off or coach gun models. I know there is the example of the extreme short version in EoG, but I'm not sure I buy into the "they were all sawed off" theory. I'm more inclined to think that shotguns were probably left with long barrels. I think this may have been the norm simply because of the manner in which cavalry commanders (at least here in the west), were deploying their troops. As Mike mentioned, cavalry was being used largely as mounted Infantry. Maximum firepower on the ground would have been the preferred effect. Shotguns, because of their smoothbore definition, are not overly effective anyway. However, when you saw the barrel off to the point that you have a hand howitzer, I'd argue that your effectiveness would have been even more weakened. The longer the barrel, the better your range with certain types of ammunition.

So, if you are going to get a shotgun for early or even mid-war scenarios, I'd go with a regular length barrel and avoid the coach guns you see at places like Dixie. You can run across some good shotgun deals at gunbroker.com from time to time.

[Lone_Rebel87]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

I live about 10 minutes from the dixie gun works in Union City Tenn. and they are currently carrying a long barreled I think about 33-36 in shotgun that is percussion but they get kinda expensive their..really high priced on some of their guns. :)

Jordan davis

[NC5thCav]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

Thanks guys. I meant to say mid war, not late. The supply returns I saw were from mid to late 1863. The point about being used mostly as mounted infantry is well taken. Many resources I have seen lately show widespread use of infantry rifles. I also see, as stated in another thread here, that pistols were pretty scarce.

Derek Carpenter

"First at Bethel, farthest at Gettysburg and Chickamauga, last at Appomattox"

[T.Kern]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

Thanks guys. I meat to say mid war, not late. The supply returns I saw were from mid to late 1863. The point about being used mostly as mounted infantry is well taken. Many resources I have seen lately show widespread use of infantry rifles. I also see, as stated in another thread here, that pistols were pretty scarce.

Derek Carpenter

First at Bethel, farthest at Gettysburg and Chickamauga, last at Appomattox

Often shotguns used during the war were long barrelled, loaded with buck and ball. Sometimes buckshot or just .69 ball, the ball has about the same range as a smooth bore musket. I believe (listed in some returns) a number of .69 cartridges are going for shotguns, as a number of sporting caps are also being issued and other evidence of these regiments having some. Hanse McNeil, of McNeils rangers, preferred to carry a shotgun loaded with buckshot in one barrel and ball in the other. I think they were more common later in the war than we have thought, though I still believe when a rifle was available they would upgrade. Below are some returns/ reports that speak of shotguns. From the OR's;



LYNCHBURG, May 26, 1861.
Col. R. S. GARNETT,
Adjutant-General Virginia Forces:
…four companies of cavalry here, one from Campbell, one from Bedford, one from Botetourt, and one from Franklin, and they are very fine companies. They are all armed with sabers, the Franklin company having indifferent sabers of an old pattern. It also brought down sixty-three flint-lock pistols of the old pattern. These companies are, I expect, the best mounted cavalry companies in the State, and if they could be efficiently armed they would render fine service. I have directed them to get all the double-barrel shotguns they could.... J. A. EARLY,[2.] Colonel of Volunteers.




QUARTERMASTER'S OFFICE, VIRGINIA VOLUNTEERS,
Staunton, Va., May 26, 1861.
[Governor LETCHER :]
MY DEAR SIR: I inclose you the letters...The Greenbrier Cavalry, a fine body of men, arrived to-day, and I send W. H. Peyton, esq., down to get army pistols, double-barrel shotguns, or single-barrel shotguns, to enable me to arm this company and send them at once to Grafton. I have nearly sabers enough\


…There are now eight companies of cavalry here, well mounted and in fine condition, but for the arms necessary for them, which are mostly wanting. Two companies are armed with double-barreled shotguns, and two more will soon have them. I wish that you would cause all the flint-lock pistols at the armory and all sabers that may be on hand to be sent here. If there are any rifles which would answer for cavalry I wish you would have them sent also.
Very respectfully,
J. A. EARLY,


ORDNANCE OFFICE,
Memphis, March 3, 1862.

Hon. J. P. BENJAMIN,
Secretary of War:
SIR: Requisitions are daily made upon me for pistols for cavalry service in this department, but I can now find none for sale at any point in the Confederacy. Many have been bought up by the infantry (officers and privates), and I respectfully suggest that you disarm the infantry and let the cavalry get the pistols now in the hands of the former.... Colonel Forrest, the most efficient cavalry officer in this department, informs me that the double-barrel shotgun is the best gun with which cavalry can be armed, and that at Fort Donelson one discharge of his shotguns, at close quarters, scattered 400 of the enemy whom three of our regiments had vainly tried to dislodge from the stronghold in a ravine.
Respectfully,
WM. RICHARDSON



HEADQUARTERS EIGHTH VIRGINIA CAVALRY,
Mercer Court-House, January 24, 1862.
General S. COOPER,
Adjutant-General, Richmond, Va.:
GENERAL: I telegraphed you... My force will be 500 cavalry, armed mostly with old shotguns, bowie knives, and a few long-range rifles and muskets, and about fifty Colt revolvers, and some sabers.
Col. Jenifer


HEADQUARTERS CAVALRY BRIGADE,
Camp on Kanawha, W. Va., September 19, 1862.
COLONEL: This command, consisting at that time of seven companies of the Eighth Virginia Cavalry...
…On taking possession of the town (Buckhannon,W.Va.) I found an immense supply of commissary and other stores, besides 5,000 stand of arms, and vast supplies of ordnance stores, clothing, &c. Many of my command were poorly armed, and all were at once supplied with Enfield and Harper's Ferry rifles, except a single company, which I permitted to keep its shot-guns for the purpose of heading a charge....

WINCHESTER, VA., August 29, 1862.
Major-General HALLECK,
General-in-Chief:
On the 27th I Started 6 of my men across the Blue Ridge, through Ashby's Gap. Had them armed with shot-guns, and chased them into the enemy's line with a cavalry force from here. They have just returned, and furnish the following, which may not be new, but which I fully rely on:
(tricky yanks, using shotguns to make the rebs think their southerners.)


CAPTAIN: The following is a report of a scout made by Lieut. F. Charles Hume, adjutant Thirty-second Battalion Virginia Cavalry:
…By this time, at a double-quick, Corporal Wooten, myself with one squad, reached the post, and met the relief picket re-enforced and returning. They discovered us at about 60 yards' distance, and I ordered a surrender. They replied by a shot, and I commanded the men to fire on them. Shot-guns proved insufficient, as far as I could judge, but I am well convinced that none of the 4 escaped unhurt.


HEADQUARTERS MOUNTED RIFLES,
Suffolk, Va., March 9, 1863.
SIR: I have the honor to submit the following report of a late reconnaissance at Smithfield, Blackwater, &c.:
…At our first fire, however, the enemy, whom we learned to be some 50 of Claiborne's Confederate cavalry (Seventh Regiment), turned and fled ...Major Wheelan succeeded, however, in capturing four men and horses, with several rifles, shotguns, &c., which the enemy had thrown away in their flight. …
have the honor to remain, general, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
CHARLES C. DODGE,
Colonel, Commanding.
Maj. B. B. FOSTER,
Assistant Adjutant-General.


HEADQUARTERS FORREST'S CAVALRY,
Okolona, Miss., November 21, 1863.
Col. B. S. EWELL,
Assistant Adjutant-General.'
I have the honor respectfully to forward herewith reports and communications from Col. R. V. Richardson. I have been unable to ascertain or get a report from him of his force in camps. He states that he has about 300 men, but from other sources I think 250 men will be about the number....I am, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
N. B. FORREST,
Brigadier-General, Commanding.

[Inclosure No. 4.]
Ordnance report of the West Tennessee Brigade, commanded by Col. Robert V. Richardson.
Arms:
Enfield rifles .... 165
Austrian rifles .... 65
Mississippi rifles .... 2
Sharps rifles .... 19
Colt rifle .... 1
Maynard rifles .... 3
Shotguns .... 10
Springfield rifles .... 7
Musket .... 1
Bayonets .... 78
Bayonet-scabbards .... 78
Colt navy pistols .... 118
Colt army pistols .... 33
Accouterments:
Cartridge-boxes .... 171
Cap-boxes .... 139
Waist-belts .... 11
Cross-belts .... 120
Ammunition:
tabletempEnfield cartridges .... 11,400
Austrian cartridges .... 1,000
Navy pistol-cartridges .... 800
Army pistol-cartridges .... 300
Ammunition in wagons rounds 16,000
Number of serviceable horses .... 247
Number of unserviceable horses .... 40

..... R. V. RICHARDSON,
Colonel, Commanding Northeast Mississippi.
NOVEMBER 19, 1863.



HDQRS. 2D CAV. BRIG.,KAUTZ'S DIV., 18TH A. C.,
Bermuda Hundred, Va., May 25, 1864.
CAPTAIN: In obedience to instructions received from you as per letter of May 24, 1864, I have the honor to make the following report:
May l7.--Started early. Nothing of importance occurred during the day till about 4 p.m., when the command was within a few miles of City Point. Here a small command of 60 or 70 rebel cavalry charged by a side road, halted within 20 yards of L Company, Eleven Pennsylvania Cavalry, and delivered a fire from shot guns. The company halted and returned the fire, whereupon the rebels took to the woods. One man killed by a fire from the woods.
SAML. P. SPEAR,
Col. Eleventh Pa. Cav., Comdg. 2d Brig., Cav. Div.
Capt. M. J. ASCH,
Actg. Asst. Adjt. Gen., Kautz's Cavalry Division.



CHARLESTON, S.C., February 10, 1864.
[Lieut. Col. J. R. WADDY :]
COLONEL: In obedience to special orders received from your office, I have the honor to make the following report in accordance therewith:

At the same camp, near Tallahassee, on the same date, were inspected Companies D and I, Second Florida Cavalry. Company D, Captain Maxwell, 78 men for duty, with seventy-eight Maynard rifles, sabers, and holster pistols, old pattern; the supply of ammunition for rifles small. I directed the captain to make requisition at once on Lieutenant Carlisle for ammunition. The saddles used by this company are the plain tree (saddle), but they seemed to do very well, as none of the horses' backs were at all sore.
Company I, Second Florida Cavalry, Captain Parramore, armed with Maynard rifles, 40; Mississippi rifles. 6; Enfield rifles, 5; caliber carbines, 30; Hall's carbines, 7; double-barreled shotguns, 5. Saddles same as those in Company D. This company has also sabers....On the 11th of January, the ordnance depot, under charge of Lieut. S. S. Carlisle, at Quincy, Fla., was inspected; there were in depot some few infantry accouterments made of canvas, covered with a sort of lacquer. These accouterments are necessarily very poor, and the ammunition can therefore last but a short time, comparatively, in such boxes. The belts are also much too short,
Captain Thigpin's company (A), Second Florida Cavalry, stationed on Dead Lakes, some 90 miles below Chattahoochee, Fla.: 67 men for duty; no Government arms; private arms in hands of company; 4 flint-and-steel Sawyer, 14 Harper's Ferry rifles, 9 carbines, 4 private shotguns, 29 State shotguns. Saddles good; company well supplied with ammunition for present purposes.




MAY 8, 1863.
SECRETARY OF WAR:
Two inclosures. An answer of general assurance and stating what had been done was handed to the committee. These papers are referred for information and due attention.
J. D.
<ar110_462>
defending the Tennessee Valley to our assistants. Of 960 men in Second Alabama only 350 are armed. In addition to Smith's regiment of State Troops (650 men) seven other companies are reported by General Gholson, though not time yet to organize them fully, tolerably well mounted and armed with shotguns. Barteau's regiment (Second Tennessee Cavalry, 540, 40 with horses) principally armed with shotguns. Major Inge has 250 armed with shotguns. Very few pistols or sabers in the command except Second Alabama Regiment. From 2,500 to 2,600 in this district. Hewlett's Alabama battalion (250) needing horses and discipline.

[CJSchumacher]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

[QUOTE=T.Kern]At the same camp, near Tallahassee, on the same date, were inspected Companies D and I, Second Florida Cavalry...The saddles used by this company are the plain tree (saddle), but they seemed to do very well, as none of the horses' backs were at all sore.

Company I, Second Florida Cavalry, Captain Parramore, armed with Maynard rifles, 40; Mississippi rifles. 6; Enfield rifles, 5; caliber carbines, 30; Hall's carbines, 7; double-barreled shotguns, 5. Saddles same as those in Company D. This company has also sabers....On the 11th of January, the ordnance depot, under charge of Lieut. S. S. Carlisle, at Quincy, Fla., was inspected; there were in depot some few infantry accouterments made of canvas, covered with a sort of lacquer. These accouterments are necessarily very poor, and the ammunition can therefore last but a short time, comparatively, in such boxes. The belts are also much too short,
[/QUOTE=T.Kern]

Todd,

What can I say...awesome post with a ton of useful information! I love this little bit about the 2nd Florida. Maynards, shotguns, HALL's (at this time!!), Company I with sabers also, tarred accouterments (I love the part about the belts being too short...can just picture a guy with cartridge box and belt ending around mid-torso or higher!)

Talk about a hodge-podge of gear...and shoddy to boot!! At least they had good saddles.

Again, great post.

Chris

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

I second Chris' comments. I also appreciate the time and effort taken to post first person information form ORs, correspondence, newspaper articles, etc.

One of the impressions that I've never seen portrayed is that of the UNARMED trooper. In the west, primarily Wheeler's command, anywhere from 20-25% of his troopers were unarmed at any one time duing the mid-late war period (according to Inspection Reports and ORs). It is usually assumed that these unarmed men were the horseholders, and since they were mostly in the rear when the unit was dismounted, had the least need for arms. But, what about those instances when the unit wasn't fighting dismounted? What did they do? Where were they in the formation?

Thoughts for a rainy night in Georgia.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

Shotgun image.

[KyCavMajor]

Cavalry shotguns-image, early eastern theater

I love the sling.

[GBaylor]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

Tod,

Any ID on that fellow?

John Sweeney

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Cavalry shotguns-image, early eastern theater

Great image. Any ideas on whether the sling is Confederate, civilian or maybe English? Also, how is the sling hooked to the shotgun? Inquiring minds want to know.

[RelicRoomGuy]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

On the "sawn-off" question: in some cases I've seen, cavalry soldiers provided shotguns from home - the 20th Bn. Georgia Cavalry was an example, and I've seen SC references to this as well. Now, do you chop the end off your OWN squirrel or partridge gun to make it into a street-sweeper? I would think not, and I would expect a paper trail of "commutation" payments if the men were ordered to mutilate their sporting guns in that fashion!

I have often wondered about the "unarmed" troopers, because anywhere near a combat zone I would want a "security blanket" weapon even if it was an inappropriate piece of junk. Would anybody else suspect that these horse-holders would be more likely than most soldiers, to have civilian-model privately owned pistols which wouldn't show up on the ordnance reports? Especially in Wheeler's notoriously not-very-regulated command?

Pure speculation in the hopes of getting informed feedback.
Thanks -

[JDR]

Re: Cavalry shotguns

how much more or less effective would a sawed off shotgun be? obviously full length, and sawed off barrels would each have their own advantages. which configuration would be best suited to the job of the garden variety cavalryman?

myself, i believe i would choose to leave my barrels full length. whatcha think ya'll might do?

darryl robertson