horse

[csabugler]

I am currently looking at a "flea bitten grey" Kentucky mountain saddle horse. My brief research on the breed has led to the belief that they have been bred in the hills of ky for nearly 200 years. A short stocky breed, 5-gaited, very smooth and sure-footed. Does anybody know about them in general, or have any valid reason to stay away from them?
Patrick

[frankstevanus]

Re: horse

Patrick:
Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horses in general are great horses. I have saddle and trail broke them and I found them to be a great potential for the trails. Generally, I have found them to be very even tempered for thier age. They have been bred in 'the mountains' for some time. They are, however, because of thier short stature, amongst other things, not very smooth rides, compared to other gaited breeds.
You really have to ride the individual horse to see. But I would reccommend them. They are easy keepers. And have few medical issues. A tough little breed, I don't think you can go wrong if the price is right.
Good Luck
Frank Stevanus

I am currently looking at a "flea bitten grey" Kentucky mountain saddle horse. My brief research on the breed has led to the belief that they have been bred in the hills of ky for nearly 200 years. A short stocky breed, 5-gaited, very smooth and sure-footed. Does anybody know about them in general, or have any valid reason to stay away from them?
Patrick

[10nycav]

Re: horse

Gaited horses were quite common throughout the Colonies from the 1600s on. Contrary to popular belief the base stock for gaited horses was not necessarily from Spain--they were also quite common in France and the British Isles at the time that horses were first being imported to the New World. (The best Spanish war-horses, in fact were NOT gaited.) After going through 18th century newspaper advertisements for last and strayed horses, I can tell you that both gaited and non gaited horses were distributed throughout the colonies. From the best I can gather the early Colonial gaited horse tended to be small (averaging about 14 hands), with a short strong neck, and a sloping croup. They often had a tendency to be narrow between the forelegs. They came in all colors. They were not "pretty," nor were they especially fast, but they were comfortable and surefooted. Most often they were simply called "pacers" even when the gait was not a true pace.

The use of gaited horses began to decline wherever the road systems were improved. In such areas, trotters came into favor and they were increasingly bred for speed. This held true in both the British Isles and the US. Gaited horses held on longer in the South and areas like the Appalachians and Ozarks due to the relative scarcity of good roads.

After the Civil War, breeding of gaited horses for show caused a number of changes from the ancestral type. They were bred to increase size, speed and flashiness of the gaits and to improve refinement and looks. Other blood was added to achieve these objectives, including Thoroughbred and Morgan. To a degree, temperament, hardiness, and surefootedness suffered. Many modern gaited horses are taller, flashier, and hotter than their ancestors.

It is still possible to find "old fashioned" gaited horses--sounds like your prospect might be one. The only other issue to consider is how well the horse's gaits match the gait of other horses in formation. My first reenacting horse was an old style Walker, but I had a lot of difficulty matching other horse's gaits. His flat walk was too fast and his running walk too slow to match the other horses at a trot. Both he and I ended up getting frustrated and most often he would travel in either a jig or a bone-jarring pace. Remember the regulation speeds are about 3-1/2-4 mph (walk), 8 mph (trot) and 11 mph (slow gallop=canter). Try him out with other horses and see how he fits in.

Ken Morris

[csabugler]

Re: horse

I rode him yesterday in some very hilly terrain, much like Pickett's Mill for those who know it. It was wet and lots of leaves down. Crossed several creeks with deep beds. We went sideways more than once on the hills, but he handled it fine. I am accustomed to a percheron /twh cross who has 4 suction cups on the bottom of his legs and never takes a bad step. The kmsh was not quite that good on the hills. seemed to "hop" in the back on steep down grades. The perch in a column has a testicle-wrecking gait at the trot. WE trotted and cantered a bit. The others were on arabs. at their trot he went into a very nice lope or canter, I'm not sure what it is called, but I could sit a long time. I think I could bugle off his trot and canter, never could the perch.
Patrick

[Russell Huffman]

Re: horse

hey patrick,

some of my friends here in central kentucky are some of the biggest K.M.H. breeders in the country and i have had them come to events and ride with me before and there horses were great .all of them that i have seen were very good with gun fire etc. i think they make very good horses for living historys etc.


Russell Huffman

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: horse

I have owned a walker cross for about 20 years and I have friends who keep Rocky Mountains and a gaited horse would not be appropriate for a cavalry horse.

They are excellent cross country horses very comfortable, quiet, brave and willing. A good long different horse.

But they lack the 'fire' a true cavalry horse should have.

Also his gaits will cause a problem because his walk will generally be faster than most other horses making position keeping difficult yet his running walk will be slowler than the trot of the other horses.

His canter and galop should be fine but you'd have to push him up through his two best gaits to get him into the trot and he probably would prefer not to be there.

Now as an officer mount, you probably couldn't do any better for all day comfort in the saddle.

Bob sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

[Alan Lloyd]

Re: horse

Friends

I have two Rocky Mountain Horses, and have ridden them as Cavalry horses for 9 years.

I believe that this breed is similar to the KMH.

Both of my horses will trot as well as do a running walk. They both match gaits in column without trouble. Their trots are very comfortable to sit, as well.

The only small issue is that if you are leading a column at a walk, you have to hold them back or they will out walk the other, non-gaited horses.

I find no trouble with their "spirit"...they move out well when asked. I think they are as level headed around gunfire, as any breed I have been around.

Another advantage is that they look more like a 19th century horse than the heavily muscled Quarter horses that are so popular here in the west. (So long as you avoid the distinctive Chocolate coat/ flax mane color)

I am looking for another Cavalry horse, and I am only considering Rockys, KMH, and Foxtrotters.

[10nycav]

Re: horse

I have pored over descriptions of horses for some time now and really good detailed descriptions of any horse, let alone gaited horses, written during the Civil War are not easy to come by. Most good descriptions are of high ranking officers’ horses and therefore probably do not constitute a representative sampling of what the average trooper rode. The following are a sampling of the few accounts that clearly describe gaited horses used during the War:

John Weatherred's Mare:

“Soon after this battle, General Joe Wheeler's command of cavalry, 8 or 10 thousand strong was ordered to march through Tennessee and Kirkpatrick's Battalion of four hundred and fifty of us were with him. The next day after we started, I was still mounted on my mule that I had got at Calhoon, Georgia; a good mule but very poor. I met an old man going to the mill with a sack of corn on a gray mare, I asked him how he would trade. I put the sack on the mule and I mounted the gray mare. He got much the best of the trade: the gray could pace: nice saddle animal: I thought I was well mounted.

. . . My old gray mare could move along very easy and slowly but was not a success, when swift movement was necessary, so she stumbled and fell down and caught my right leg under her body and I could not get from under: the other horses, many of them would jump clear over us. My old gray only grunted and layed very heavy on my leg, on this very hard macadamized road. At last four boys stopped and pulled old gray off. . . . Very soon I asked an old gentleman if he wanted to buy my gray mare and saddle. He said he would give me $25.00 and I sold.”

From: The Wartime Diary of John Wetherred (9th KY Cav)

http://www.jackmasters.net/we1863.html

Rutherford Hayes's Horse:

“CAMP JACKSON, NEAR COLUMBUS,
Friday P. M., June 14, 1861.

. . . My want now is a good horse. A small or medium-sized animal of good sense, hardy and kind, good looking enough, but not showy, is what I want. A fast walk, smooth trot, and canter are the gaits. I don't object to a pacer if he can walk and gallop well. Don't bother yourself to find one, but if you happen to know any, let me know. I am busy or I would write more.

Sincerely,
R. B. HAYES.”

(From reading of his other letters it was clear that Hayes spent a lot of time in the saddle and covered a lot of miles as an infantry officer. It is interesting to note that for an infantry officer a walk and a gallop were the important gaits and the intermediate gaits --trot, pace etc--were less often used. As a side note Hayes ended up with a non-gaited horse.)

From: DIARY AND LETTERS OF RUTHERFORD BIRCHARD HAYES
CHAPTER XIV, SECESSION AND WAR--1861 http://www.ohiohistory.org/onlinedoc...hapterxiv.html


Stonewall Jackson’s Little Sorrel:

This horse sounds much like the Colonial style pacer, which had long passed out of fashion by the time of the Civil War but apparently still existed. A contemporary wrote of this horse:

“‘Little Sorrel’ was a plebeian-looking beast, not a chestnut; he was stocky and well-made, round-barreled, close coupled, good shoulder, excellent legs and feet, not fourteen hands high, of boundless endurance, good appetite, good but heavy head and neck, a natural pacer with little action and no style. He was one of a dozen horses taken from a train of cars at Harper’s Ferry in April, 1861, en route to Washington, and he was turned over to Colonel Jackson. It would have been impossible to have found another horse that would have suited his new owner so exactly – he was made for him. The General did not care to mount another horse, and never rode another one in battle except for a short time when the ‘Little Sorrel’ was stolen. The endurance of the animal was marvelous, and the General was apt to forget it was exceptional. He never seemed to change in looks or condition; his gait, except when the yells of the soldiers warmed him into a gallop, was always the same, an amble; he would eat a ton of hay or live on cobs. He survived the war for years.”

General Meade’s Baldy:
“Though Meade became deeply attached to the horse, his staff officers soon began to complain of the peculiar pace of “Baldy,” which was hard to follow. He had a racking gait that was faster than a walk and slow for a trot and compelled the staff, alternately, to trot and then to drop into a walk, causing great discomfort.”

--Rodenbaugh, The Photographic History of the Civil War: The Cavalry, page 312.

Other Examples:

A captain in the 10th NY Cavalry rode a “pacer” named “Black Dan,” a tall, elegant looking horse which shows the influence of the Thoroughbred on gaited horses, even that long ago. (Nothing in the regimental history hints at what he or others thought of the horse.) Ulysses Grant’s little pony “Jeff Davis” was said to be easy gaited and Grant rode him when his piles were giving him problems.

All in all it appears that gaited horses worked well for officers (so long as they could set their own pace) but likely not so well for enlisted men who had to match the speed of others. Although gaited horses of various types were not uncommon, I would conclude that they were not preferred among enlisted cavalrymen. More likely, they were pressed into service when needed. Their greatest use may have been among infantry officers who spent long hours in the saddle but could choose their own speed.

Ken Morris

[csabugler]

Re: horse

Damn, lots to think about, thanks all for the input. The one I was looking at turned up lame for the vet check, waiting to see what the owner is going to do about it...
Patrick