British carbine sling snap hooks

[Ken Knopp]

Gents,

I have long wondered about verifying the authenticity of these so called "British Carbine Snap Hooks" as Confederate (or otherwise) imports. We have seen them for years in collections and relic shows. Some of my British friends have told me they "could be" but, could not authenticate them as a period British army accoutrement item. Recently, I found the info below at www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com ("accoutrements" on page 3- I think) that I thought was very intriguing as well as discussion provoking relative to this issue.
By the way, this is a neat web site for checking out cavalry relics of all kinds and worth keeping as one of your "favorites". You may recall Kenneth Mcpheeters as the co-author with Stephen Dorsey of THE AMERICAN MILITARY SADDLE, 1776-1945. I have found him to be a fine gentleman of quality reputation.
Though not my "area", I am told many Brit regiments used the leather carbine bucket but some might have used carbine slings (some of their weapons had side bars and rings on their Sharp's, Terry, converted Snider breechloader, Westley Richards capping breechloaders of the 50's and 60's as well as their last muzzle loader carbine of 1861) prior to and during "our period" to about the 1870's or so. Perhaps some folks with more knowledge on this subject can comment.


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BRITISH IMPORT CARBINE SLING SWIVEL AS PURCHASED BY THE CONFEDERACY – MAKER MARKED: For many years this pattern of carbine sling swivel has been recognized as having originated in England and to have been purchased by the Confederacy for use by their mounted troops, however there was no known affirmative connection that tied this pattern of sling swivel to England or to the Confederacy. This specimen, unique in that it is stamped on the link between the snap and the sling roller, “Jukes Coulson & Co.”, has confirmed that these carbine snap swivels were manufactured in England. Recently it was determined that this company was in business at the time of the American Civil War and is still currently in business as “Jukes Coulson Stokes and Co., Ltd”, located in Suffolk, England. According to the company representatives, Jukes Coulson & Co. manufactured hardware and other blacksmith related work during the mid 19th century, were exporting their products overseas, and are known to have provided their products to the famous Hudson Bay Company here in North America. While this pattern of carbine hook resembles the pattern in use by the British Army in the mid 19th century, the Jukes Coulson Company representatives had no knowledge, records or memory of ever having had a contract to manufacture these carbine sling swivels to the British Army. In line with the lack of any evidence of the existence of such a contract, this specimen, like other known specimens, does not have the “broad arrow” stamp, which if present would indicate acceptance and use by the British Army.

This particular pattern snap swivel is shown on page 148 of Ken Knopp’s Made in the C.S.A., Saddle Maker’s of the Confederacy, with a caption indicating that its origin is unclear, but stating further that it “remains quite likely that some British snap hooks were imported by the Confederacy.” The recent discovery of this maker marked specimen and the subsequent research that identifies it as a product of a 19th century English manufacturer involved in exporting goods to North America furthers the belief and aids in the confirmation that these snap swivels were indeed available to the Confederacy.

This specimen is complete with a functioning snap and all the components and has a nice aged patina. The stamping is legible, particularly once you know what the content is, although being applied to such a narrow surface, some of the individual characters are not complete. This is an exceptionally rare, identified piece, as was purchased by the agents working in the foreign markets and imported to arm the soldiers of the Confederacy. $335

PHOTOS ATTACHED
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Are they truly British of the period? Could they be Confederate (or even Federal) imports? Any comments?

Ken R Knopp

[Ken Knopp]

Re: British carbine sling snap hooks

Gents,

I came across this carbine sling at the Nashville CW show. The collector (a.k.a. seller) told me it was British. I note it is "nearly" of the correct width for the British snap hook but the brass buckle and tip are not like that I have seen before on British accoutrements. The buckle looks more like a CS forked tongue frame buckle although of a shorter length and the tip is smaller than the Federal one. Almost looks Indian War??
I searched through my various research sources (WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT OF THE VICTORIAN SOLDER; OPSREY"S BRITISH ARMY ON CAMPAIGN 3, 1856-1881; ARMS AND EQUIPMENT OF THE BRITISH ARMY, 1866 as well as Crimean War photographs to little avail) and found a couple of drawings suggesting a similar carbine sling was used on the 1854 or 58 cavalry accoutrements. I naturally assumed these would be white leather but I know that some regiments utilized black leather. So, in the end....is it legitimate? What period? I do not know enough about these equipments to form an opinion. Anyone? Please?

Ken R Knopp

[erik]

Re: British carbine sling snap hooks

I have taken a look at my library and, not being aquanted with the mountd service, I found ample illustrations of the described carbine hook and swivel. I agree that the buckle is not British in origin but probably local manufacture.
C.H. Roads in his book "Th British Soldier's Firearm,s" dos not show any carbine sling after 1863, though the carbines were equipped with bars and rings.
Pictorial references are found in " British Cavalry Uniforms Since 1660" Michael Barthorpe, 1984 Blandford Press, ISBN 0 7137 1043 8.
"Uniforms and Weapons of the Crimean War " Robert Wilkinson-Latham, 1977, ISBN 0 7134 0656 9.

Th swivel hook looks to be correct. The leather and buckle perhaps local.

Erik Simundson

[Ken Knopp]

Re: British carbine sling snap hooks

Erik, THANK YOU! Allow me to ask for clarification....What do you mean by local manufacture? Can you expand upon that a bit please? Best, Ken R Knopp

[erik]

Re: British carbine sling snap hooks

My use of the term local reflects my opinion that the swivels were imported and the slings and buckles manufactured by contract perhaps at state level or even the Confederate Government.
The British army used a combination sling and cartridge pouch in white buff leather with a black leather pouch. I cannot see a British contractor making a Virginia style buckle, though I admit it is possible. The use of slings was discontinued by the 1860's in Britain and scabbards or boots were used strapped to the saddle. The swivels would then be surplus and cheap. To have these slings made in the CS of readily available materials, using imported swivels and in keeping with the US cavalry style makes sense.
Just my opinion.

Erik Simundson