Jaguar-Skin Trousers

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Just a thought, and yeah, it hurt ALOT,:wink_smil

I have often wonderd if they are indeed trousers, or perhaps "shotgun chaps"....

like I said, it was just a thought...been wrong before..

[vamick]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Not to be argumentative, but jaguars did range into East Texas in the 1860's. There is also an image of Sam Houston wearing a jaguar skin vest from this period as well.

Well maybe he was one of those 'Filabusters' that went to Nicaragua with William Walker before tha war( during which time he shot several jaguars and crawled into their still steaming bodies to escape the torrental rain)..survived Walker's fall from garce in Hondo territory, got tired of beans and rice and rum, well..friolas and rice anyway...was able to catcha a ride with a campenseno in his canoe to tha gulf, then hitched a ride on a dolphin's back to Glaveston..( made some rope from braided human hair and lassoed a coupla sea turtles....)..welll you get tha picture:D

HEY! it COULD happen!

[FTrooper]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

I think somewhere I had read that Richardson was a noted hunter and had travelled a bit in his time killing exotic creatures! (yes people DID travel internationally in the 1800's), but I do not remember where I had read that exactly. I can see where that would be unpleasent pants, but nice holsters! The gross part is that if they are indeed real Jag. and he went through the work to make the trousers and mathcing holsters that there was probably a matching jacket to complete the set! UGH!

Hmmmmm...maybe I should have a kepi made from it? :D

Oh well, unless someone grows the big Grizzly Adams beard and is doing a 1st person Richardson impressing in far west Texas, I too hope these never come to an event!

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

[Barry Smithson]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Trying to stay closer to Authenticity Discussions on a wide variety of issues relating directly to authentic cavalry living history and reenacting.

[benjaminmcgee]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Trying to stay closer to Authenticity Discussions on a wide variety of issues relating directly to authentic cavalry living history and reenacting.

[Duff]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Trying to stay closer to Authenticity Discussions on a wide variety of issues relating directly to authentic cavalry living history and reenacting.

[CJDaley]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Hey Chris Daley, you interested in some custom work! I'll shoot the jaguar and bring it to your shop! You can do the making-it-into-pants part. When I'm in the field, I can wear those, a purple velvet vest, the biggest possible purple wide-brim hat I can find, stick all the irish harps, masonic pins, brass horns, crossed cannons and crossed swords I can find on it and I'll be the civil war PIMP!

I don't want to violate the rules pertaining to my 'other vendor' status, but I think I can say that I don't have the time or talent to put such an impression together. ;)

Mods: There are some interesting aspects to this thread and I hope you don't shut it down. While none of us would even want to see this sort of an impression at an event, I think this is the first time folks have tackled the image with serious research and it's certainly a thread to challenge our minds on a cold winter's day...or as cold as it gets in Virginia.

Chris Hubbard, Greenman Tim, Phil Graf, Chris Fischer have all added thoughtful insight into this previously discounted photo and I hope it is able to stand under the 'no farbism' rules.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Hallo!

Moderator hat on.... while pruning.

Lads. Please try to stay more focused on the serious side of the Authenticity Discussion folder requirements.

Thanks.

Curt

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Curt,

Perhaps we can get this thread back on-track (or start a new one along these lines) by encouraging hobbyists to post period images or evidence of animal skins/parts being used on uniforms in the war? I feel this has educational merit. It is a topic comparison that would do well to cut through the farbisms we see so often in regard to mainstreamers using animal parts on their uniforms versus the realities presented in documentary evidence. We already have the "Jaguar-skin" cavalry trooper... Here's my submission to help this conversation get back-on-track:

42nd Penna Infantry... The "Bucktails"

http://www.pabucktail.com/Reference/Bucktails%20Forward.htm

Check out the original sketch of the Bucktail's Col. McNeil from the above website...

Thanks- Johnny Lloyd

PS- Mods, please move this if necessary... I know it doesn't fit a Cav discussion.

[tmdreb]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Let's see if this link works: http://tides.sfasu.edu/AN18/SMM1981_...rono=5&index=0

This is Sam Houston's jaguar vest. It looks like it's made from the actual skin to me. This may or may not shed some light on Capt. Richardson's pants. CJ, you may possibly be right. I hadn't considered that possibility before.

Here's old Sam wearing the vest: http://tides.sfasu.edu:2006/cdm4/ite...SOBOX=1&REC=16

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

It is intersting that folks are calling these trousers.

In fact if one looks closely there is no fly to the front of these. As these are Spanish style Chaperaras (Chaps) that button up the side. These are a type of over all or over trousr, to use the american term. Also there are two top down flaped pocket in in the waist.

The original picture (which I have seen) was last in The Jefferson Texas Historical Museum ( I looked at in in 2002 when I lived in Tyler TX, It may have moved since then)

Animal skin Spanish or Mexican style Chaps were usually backed with a woolen fabric in a bright contrasting colour. Sometimes this appears as an edging on the finished side of chaps, usually cut in a decorative fashion.

Thest types of Chaps are surprisingly common in various forms in the South West, Texas, New Mexico , Arizona & California. Ment for work, they were in use very early on ( See any picture of early Mexican, Tejano, Californio Don, Rancero, & Vaquero (sp) from the 1830-50's)

Some Anglos adopted this style as well. As it is functional and works well

Don S

[FTrooper]

Hoping NOT to tick the moderators off

Hey Daley...you want a fun game...get as many books and photos as you can on civil war soldiers and try finding all the "farbisms" is actual photographs! I've got some scary ones and a couple that look like the jumped out of Hollywood westerns!

I know we need to stay focused on the "general" appearance and discussions of the soldiers, but some times we have to remember that the "authentics" are also just interpreting facts available ( we do NOT want to get into the debate of blued vs. burnished enfields cause we all know how nasty that got only to find BOTH sides were right). Its like those who scream "farb" when they see a person with alot of brass on the forage cap, but has that same person looked at Langiler's book on headgear! Also we have APPROVED Venders selling copies of the wild one of a kind shirts made from table clothes and such and we're excited when they do it because it falls into the image and bias we WANT to see...so this topic may be unpleasant to some, but I agree it is a valid research topic.

SO I agree with Johnny Lloyd...maybe the topic we need to start in relation to this is:
"what evidence of animal skin of faux animal skin clothing are noted in the Civil War and how common are they?"

Just food for thought...because in reality I think animal skin print is just a little too goofy unless we're talking about my undies :D !!

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

[CJDaley]

Re: Hoping NOT to tick the moderators off

Hey Daley...you want a fun game...get as many books and photos as you can on civil war soldiers and try finding all the "farbisms" is actual photographs! I've got some scary ones and a couple that look like the jumped out of Hollywood westerns!

I totally agree with you. We should stay focused on the common man's gear, but as you said, it's really important to take these one of a kind images and odd ball soldiers and analyze in detail their dress, equipment and fire arms. It gives us a broader understanding of the material culture and what the boys of 1861 though war would be like.

The thinks that most of the new breed of hardkewls laugh at, aren't that laughable in the 1860s. None of us what caps with baseballish brims, but some caps just do that naturally, we all want kewl shaped brims on our hats, but what would your felt hat look like if you just deal with 2 weeks of rain and sleet in the mud march of 1863.

Assignment to AC Members: I want every active member here to crack a book and find images of 'farbisms'. Then post them. Find out who that guy is, what unit he's from and why you believe we shouldn't recreate that image in our hobby today. Good luck, and happy hunting.

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

It is intersting that folks are calling these trousers.

In fact if one looks closely there is no fly to the front of these. As these are Spanish style Chaperaras (Chaps) that button up the side. These are a type of over all or over trousr, to use the american term. Also there are two top down flaped pocket in in the waist.

Don S

Don,

Earlier on in this thread, I suggested the same thing... thought I was nuts, but they DO look like chaps. Glad someone agrees with me:D

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Jaguar-Skin Trousers

Hi Robert.

they are un misteakably Chapararas ( Chaps). I grew up in a town that took its Spanish colonial heritage pretty seriously, in the museums there are exapmles of these types of Chaps from the period.

Paintings of the eailer period show these as well and how the side buttons function, as well as photos of the 1860s. If I can find it in my files, I have a period photo of men in Tucson in 1860-62, standing on a street corner. The man on the far right is wearing a set of these , although they are of leather and not Jaguar, but same style.

Point is this style of Chap was used in the South West (TX, NM, AZ, CA) durring the period. It is a western thing ;)

All the best

Don S