Henry Repeater

[civilwarcaptain]

Is the Henry Carbine, or Trapper model accurate? Were they ever issued? Or is this a civillian item? I found some documentation saying that they were patented in 62 and 64.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Henry Repeater

Hallo!

Short answer.... no.

The standard barrel length for the Henry rifle was 24 inches.
However, a few experimental models were made with shortened barrels. Plus, some were shortened by gunsmiths for customers to reduce the 9 pound 4 ounce weight. And one reference to a carbine having been delivered.

In terms of production, a "carbine" with a 20 inch barrel would not appear until the Winchester M1866 Improved Henry.

Curt

[civilwarcaptain]

Re: Henry Repeater

Sir,

Thank you for the information. I did not think that they were accurate for a civil war impression.

[Drygoods]

Re: Henry Repeater

Good Evening,

Although for some, it might sound odd that someone who deals in drygoods has an interest in Henry rifles, it's just such a case. I like Henry rifles, and in fact, these rifles were our courting guns. Suffice it to say, today my husband and I had a rather long discussion of the henry rifle, and here is what he put into words for those of you here....

"It is true that many Union units (and soldiers) purchased Henry rifles during the war. Records show that the Bureau of Ordinance purchased 4,610,400 rounds for them, although Gen. Ripley (head of the Bureau) was less than impressed with the arm. If you wish I could get the names of some of these units.

The rifle design was simply not well suited to combat requirements. The worst aspect was the longitudinal slot down the length of the magazine for the follower to travel in. It was highly subject to clogging with dirt and mud in combat operations. The magazine tube itself was hardly what anyone would call "robust" and the slightest damage to it would knock the weapon out of service.

As to the .44 Henry cartridge, what is there to say? I suppose it was good enough in that no one wants to be shot with anything, but it was ballistically pretty pathetic. The muzzle velocity was barely over 1100 fps and the muzzle energy was 568 foot pounds. This makes it barely humane for hunting very small deer. The configuration of the projectile caused an additional, unusually sharp, drop in velocity and energy as the bullet traveled out. By about 300 or 400 yards it was not very lethal, even if you could hit your target. The trajectory was very arced, meaning that you had to aim very hiigh to hit at that range.

For an accurate representation of what a Henry would have been like in combat, I would suggest you watch the scene in "Lonesome Dove" where Robert Duvall is pinned down behind his horse by Commancheros out in the desert. They shoot at him with Sharps rifles and he pops back with his Henry in reply. About 1 second later, his bullet hits the dirt about half way to the target.

A final note would be that the units that used Henry's used them in much the same way that WWII units used their sub-machine guns. They got up close (<200 yds) and took advantage of the rapid fire of their weapons."

Note, that the information about the rifles being a private purchase during the war, or the units that used them, came from The Illustrated Encyclopedia of 19th Century Firearms, by Major F. Myatt M.C. Sadly, we gave up the Henry rifle to purchase a Whitney-Kennedy rifle.

[civilwarcaptain]

Re: Henry Repeater

Drygoods, PM sent

[Bob Taylor]

Re: Why not a Spencer Repeater

Hello All
If you want to use a repeater for reenacting then you might want to go with a Spencer instead of a Henry. Spencers were a lot more common than Henrys back during the war. If you were able to go back in time and visit a cavalry camp late in the war you would be more likely to find men armed with Spencers than with Henrys. I am working with a guy now to get a Spencer for my Cavalry impression and he wrote an article about it. Here it is if anyone is interested.

http://www.9thnycavalry.webeditor.com/spencer_article.html

Bob

[Drygoods]

Re: Henry Repeater

Good Morning, and a very Happy New Year to all,

for those who wrote wishing more information about Henry's, here is what my husband sent to me immediately after my last post, the delay was mine, I just got on the computer this moment.....

"By early 1863, other units including the Second Wisconsin Vol. Mounted Infantry, 23rd and 51st Illinois Infantry had armed themselves with Henrys. The 58th Indiana Infantry used their Henrys in the fall of 1863 at Chickamauga. One of these was owned by Sgt. Gilbert Armstrong of Company B.(Austerman, Wayne R. "Rebel Rimfires," Man-At-Arms Sept.- Oct. 1985)

The largest privately funded Henry regiment was the 7th Illinois Volunteer Infantry. They were armed with over 500 Henrys which they purchased at $52.50 each.(Proceedings of Reunion. Association of the Survivors, 7th Regiment Ill. Vol. Inf. Springfield, 1915.) The second largest privately funded Henry regiment was probably the 66th Illinois Volunteer Infantry. They purchased over 220 Henrys.(Reece, Gen. J. N. Report of the Adjutant General of the State of Illinois. Vol. 4. Phillips Bros., State Printers, 1901.)

The government did purchase 1731 Henrys. These were issued solely to the 1st D.C. Cavalry."

[Drygoods]

Re: Henry Repeater

and a bit more from my husband, not working on the eve of the holiday:D
As I sit idly here, waiting for my computer to finish, I thought I'd do some more research on Henry rifles.

This is interesting, considering that the U.S. bought only 1,731 Henry's:

Carbine Purchased Carbine Purchased
Spencer 73,196 Merrill 14,495
Ballard 1,509 Maynard 25,202
Burnsides 55,567 Remington 2,000
Cosmopolitan 1,140 Sharps 86,512
Gibbs 1,052 Starr 20,601
Hall 3,520 Warner 4,001
Joslyn 10,200
Basically, this means, on average, that for every 1 Henry at an event, there should be 42 Spencers, 32 Burnsides, 2 Halls, 6 Joslyns, 8 Merrills, 15 Maynards, 50 Sharps and 2 Warners. Any way you look at it, reenactments seem to have WAY too many Henry's.

Inquiring minds might want to know.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Henry Repeater

Hallo!

"Any way you look at it, reenactments seem to have WAY too many Henry's."

Any way? "C/P/H" events?
;)

Curt

[Drygoods]

Re: Henry Repeater

Mr. Schmidt,
Yours is an interesting comment, I've yet to see a Henry at any CA event I've attended, maybe folks hide 'em.:o

[civilwarcaptain]

Re: Why not a Spencer Repeater

Hello All
If you want to use a repeater for reenacting then you might want to go with a Spencer instead of a Henry. Spencers were a lot more common than Henrys back during the war. If you were able to go back in time and visit a cavalry camp late in the war you would be more likely to find men armed with Spencers than with Henrys. I am working with a guy now to get a Spencer for my Cavalry impression and he wrote an article about it. Here it is if anyone is interested.

http://www.9thnycavalry.webeditor.com/spencer_article.html

Bob

After reading this article, and the article written on the Henry, is is apparent to me that the author is only concerned with the ammount of cartridges he can fire and carry into battle. I noted that he suggests using a .69 caliber box, to hold more ammo. I have also seen the blaksee box that is suggested, (200% larger than an original) to hold more Spencer cartridges.

A spencer Carbine is more accurate to use than the "army" of Henrys seen at most mainstream events. However, the method used here uses a modern caliber(.44-40) , and .410 Shotgun shells. Not even close to being authentic.

On a side note, I also have heard from numerous people that the person who wrote the article sells factory "2nds" from Taylors Firearms, and the person I met at an event last year told me he sent them a broken Spencer, and would not accept a refund. IMHO I would take a safe approach "Buyer Beware", and if you are going to buy a spencer, try and stay true to the original caliber.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Henry Repeater

I've never seen anything that documents the use of a short barrel Henry. I have seen regular Henrys being used out here in California (carried by the Second California Infantry). I even researched the owner of one who was a second lieutenant in that unit. There's another up in Northern California that belongs to some Indian whose ancestor took it from some Second California soldier.

[markj]

Re: Henry Repeater

Let's see what Steve McQueen has to say about "short barrel repeaters".....

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[civilwarcaptain]

Re: Henry Repeater

Let's see what Steve McQueen has to say about "short barrel repeaters".....

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

Thats a good one..

[VaTrooper]

Re: Why not a Spencer Repeater

On a side note, I also have heard from numerous people that the person who wrote the article sells factory "2nds" from Taylors Firearms, and the person I met at an event last year told me he sent them a broken Spencer, and would not accept a refund. IMHO I would take a safe approach "Buyer Beware", and if you are going to buy a spencer, try and stay true to the original caliber.

Do you have any proof of this? I've dealt with Terry before and found him to be a good guy. I've only heard of one person having troble with him and that guy wanted his position in their unit. You kinda act like that guy even though he's been banned from here. And to be safe I'm going to ask a mod to check your ISP.