Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

[drsimm1776]

Wonder if anyone has any info on a drawing, picture or otherwise of an authentic
Maynard Carbine cartridge box ? Military OR Civilian?
Having a dervish of a time finding data on this.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

Hallo!

In my experience, I have not yet encountered a specific "Maynard" carbine cartridge box.

The U.S. Ordnance Manual, 3rd Edition (1861) is vague on the subject- specifying a carbine cartrige box for cavalry but noting that boxes were being developed for the new carbines.

What is often NUG/PEC, is that the Ordnance Department took the standard current pattern box, and simply modifed the wooden insert to take the type of cartridges used by a number of carbines or a series of types of carbines.

For example, here is one with a wooden block drilled with paired holes for 20 either .52 paper or metallic cartridges. This box would have "worked" for a variety of carbines such as, but not limited to, say a Sharps or Maynard.




Curt

[drsimm1776]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

Kurt,
Are the holes inside the box parallel to each other or offset for better finger grasping?
What is the "make / Model" on the cartridge box you show?
Do you know of anyone making a reproduction of the box you show ?
MUCH MUCH thanks for your input.
Don

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

Hallo!

That particular box is unmarked. NUG/PEC, as with this box, the block is bored with rows of parallel holes.
The box is sewn and riveted, along the lines of the Pattern of 1861 "infantry" box.

"Cavalry" equippage is not one of my strong points. I would suggest posting your detailed questions in the Authentic Cavalry Folder for better replies, and I have moved this thread there..

Sorry.

Curt

[FTrooper]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

The problem with the Maynard is that for the most part it was considered a civilian arm. The U.S. only bought a very small issue of the "1st" model. All were issued to the Regiment of Mounter Rifles in New Mexico and some were still being carried by the in 1862 during the Sibley Campaign (they were the 3rd Cavalry by then). These were turned in after the campaign when the regiment was largely reissued Sharps in Tennessee. IF a specific cartridge box was ever produced for this extremely limited number of Maynards is highly doubtful. For the most part in reality Cavalry of the 1855-1861 only ever carried the M1841 Carbine Box, inspite of the Experimental Weapon Specific Boxes supposedly issued.

It was not unitl late 1863 or even 1864 that the U.S. started to by Maynards again (i.e. the 2nd Model) and by the they U.S. had pretty much settled on a standard box with different sized blocks. though not exclusivley I do understand.

Chris Fischer
F-troop

[Tom Craig]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

Chris,

Your answer may be true for the pre war cavalry, I think the original question was directed at cartridge boxes used DURING the war. I don't have any data here in front of me, but I do know a fairly wide variety of cartridge boxes were used by the Federal cavalry throughout the war. I also think that you may be a bit off the mark as far as the Maynard's usage, but again I don't have resources here in front of me to back up my opinion.

Take care,
Tom Craig

[drsimm1776]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

Question is applicable to Civilian boxes as well. I am considering going Civilian to Marmadukes raid - taking the Maynard and want to be correct as I can.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

Hallo!

IMHO, I am still fuzzy as to the mixing and merging of "civilian" and "military" when it comes to the "1st Model Maynard" or even the "2nd Model?" Meaning, are we looking to research and document a Federal or Confederate "1st Model " Maynard Carbine to a civilian impression to a specific military cavalry cartridge box (not that I am aware of a "Maynard" box...)?

The Ordnance Department ordered 400 of what we now call the 1st Model in 1857, being produced in 1858 and 1859, and delivered in 1859 to West Point for study, befroe being sent to St. Louis Arsenal.
Some of those went to Fort Union, New Mexico and sixty were issued to the Mounted Rifles, and 100 to Company I in 1859 and 100 to Company H in 1860 of the 1st Cavalry.
In 1860, the U.S. Revenue Service acquired 200, and the Navy acquired 60 of which some went to the Marines on the U.S.S. Saratoga.
In 1861, Company "I" of the 1st Cavalry, the 9th PA Cavalry, and the 1st Winsconsin Cavalry were partially armed with them.

Early in 1861, several future "Southern" state, Georgia, Florida, and Mississippi bought 2,369. MS 325 in .50 and 300 in .35. Florida 1000 in .35. Georgia 650 in .50. About 800 of both types were sold to militia units in South Carolina and Louisiana, and a unknown number to other scrambling new CSA states.

No "2nd Model" Maynard carbines were purchased by the Federal government until June of 1864.

Curt

[FTrooper]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

WOW! I didn't realize the 1st Cavalry had them too! That's actually pretty neat stuff ( I have a thing for pre-war cavalry).

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

Hallo!

Without getting into the pre 1861 designations of who was Dragoons, Cavalry, and Mounted Riflemen. ;) :)

Curt

[FTrooper]

Cavalry, Dragoons, and Rifles...oh my!

I will use the proper war department term referring to ALL mounted troops as "cavalry" and that was how it was from 1833-1861! Even though the units were called different things. Its a long interesting story and Jeff Davis used it to his advantage. But look in the 1841 manual, dragoon is NOT mentioned. The M1840 is the "cavalry sabre" in 1850 the Hall is referred to as the "cavalry carbine" and whenever the mention mounted are in general they call it "cavalry". In 1855 JD got congress to authorize two new regiments of "cavalry" it was believed that he would organize two more of Dragoons, or two of Mounted Rifles, or one of each...no body expected that he would translate the order "literally" and create an entirely new branch with no traditions and NO seniority! If nothing else JD knew how to play the system!

OK...way off topic, sorry.

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

[Mississippian]

Re: Maynard Carbine CARTRIDGE BOX ?

"If nothing else JD knew how to play the system!"

That's why he still has his statue in Congress! :wink_smil

Will MacDonald