Faulty Friction Primers?

[Vicksburg Dave]

Has anyone had a problem with faulty friction primers lately? Within the past week I have had two get stuck in the vent, and in early June one fragmented, cutting my number 3's face. I'll keep the maker's name to myself for the time being.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Dave,
It's obviously a user problem and not the equipment! :tounge_sm

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Pat,
You weren't on the gun at the time of incidents; user ignorance, therefore, is out of the question.


PS: When ya going to bring me some more cigars. I can't get a good smoke in Vicksburg these days.

[artillerybuff]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Has anyone had a problem with faulty friction primers lately? Within the past week I have had two get stuck in the vent, and in early June one fragmented, cutting my number 3's face. I'll keep the maker's name to myself for the time being.

Those primers sound like they are way too hot! When I first started making mine for our unit approximately 4 years ago, they too were way too hot and were either bugling in the vent, blowing the bottom off, an/or blowing the top open and the tube down into the vent. What a hassle! After some fine tuning of the friction compound, filling with slower burning powder (1Fg instead of 3Fg) and using a softer wax plug (instead of pure bees wax, way too hard/tight) they now work with 100% reliablity and always fly free of the vent. In fact, the recovered tubes could even be reused as there is no change in dimension, though we do not do this.

I did hear from some that attended the 145 GB event that there were numerous primer failures from a very well known primer maker which I was surprised to hear as they have always been spot on perfect for many years. Not sure if they had to change their chemical friction compound due to unavailability or what. Or perhaps it was an isolated incident due to using old and/or improperly stored primers, I do not know as I do not have first hand information. But these were reported to be failures to fire, not excessively hot primers like you appear to have.

I should mention that stuck primers can be caused by a dirty/fouled vent, but I seriously doubt that is your situation.

2nd Lt. Anthony A. Variz
Battery D 5th US

[cplchrisv]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Dave

We had 4 primers stick in the tube and two that the friction wire pulled out of without igniting at the recent 145th Gettysburg reenactment. We were firing a bronze 6pounder belonging to the 3rd Kansas Battery B


Qmstrsgt Chris Vukovich
1st Missouri Light Artillery
Co K

[61' reb]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Dave, i used to portray a eastern artillery unit and we had the same problem occur. We had many primers get stuck in the vent tube and some the wire even pulled off of the primer itself. I would say that the maker of said primers may be at fault, i would be careful of who i purchased my next batch of primers from.

[ArtilleryNick]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

The unit I'm in has had a problem with faulty primers since late last year, and it seems we expended our supply of them at some point in early July. Most of our problems tended to be with the primer igniting its self, but not going off properly. The lanyard would get pulled and the primer would just fizzle in the vent, shooting fire out but not down into the charge. Makes for some great uncertainty when you prepare to fire, and don't know what's going to happen.

[artillerybuff]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Another note regarding Friction Primers. Be sure to store them in a dry container. We keep ours in dated paper bags inside of ammo cans with desiccant. Once they go over 12 months old we use them for drill only. This may seem excessive to some, but we never have misfires. If any of my men show up with primers they forgot they had in their primer pouch from the previous event, they get used during our drill practice as well. Only primers from my properly stored ammo can are ever used during battles and live fire competition, period!

Also, please be careful how your guys handle them. I have seen them go off unintentionally. This can occur from manipulation of the wire. NEVER attempt to adjust or bend the wire while it is in the vent of a loaded cannon!

I should mention that part of our drill includes checking the vent after every shot before loading the next round to ensure we have a clear pathway to the chamber. Finding out your vent is plugged with something after you have just loaded a live round would not be fun, and clearing a stopped vent with a gimlet or punch on a loaded piece is not a good idea.

Lastly, Friction Primers should never be casually carried in your pocket. These are very potent little devils that can cause injury.

Cheers~

2nd Lt. Anthony A. Variz
Battery D 5th US

[Yellowhammer Rebel]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Dave,
I don't know if this will help or not but I thought I would give it a shot anyway. When I used to do artillery several years ago (before I went solid infantry) we used to use primers made by Larry Fischer with no problems at all that I can remember and I worked all positions on the gun. I do believe that if we were having trouble with peoples faces getting cut, or a lot of misfires I would have remembered that. I from my knowledge back then would recommend Larry Fischer's primers wholeheartedly.

Respectfully,
Andrew Schultz

[artillerybuff]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Dave,
I don't know if this will help or not but I thought I would give it a shot anyway. When I used to do artillery several years ago (before I went solid infantry) we used to use primers made by Larry Fischer with no problems at all that I can remember and I worked all positions on the gun. I do believe that if we were having trouble with peoples faces getting cut, or a lot of misfires I would have remembered that. I from my knowledge back then would recommend Larry Fischer's primers wholeheartedly.

Respectfully,
Andrew Schultz

2nd that recommendation. Larry makes very good primers. We used them approximately five years ago before we started making our own and they work every time, are professionally assembled, and have a very nice pull. We did have a terrible batch of primers about six years ago that had a slightly higher than 10% rate of failure (made by a company no longer in business). At least one or more out of every ten the wire would pull out with no pop on those red topped primers...


2nd Lt. Anthony A. Variz
Battery D 5th US

[Robbie021006]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

At Georgia in September there were alot if Primer Failures. and Cedar Creek there were a few I have noticed there have been a few to many.

[sedlakchristopher]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Gents,
I know both sides were complaining to me about the bad primers going around while I was at Cedar Creek; and not just from one source!

Let me put a slant on this if I may, as I've been quiet too long on here and dying to add to the conversations.
Primers are not an easy thing to make and even harder to make to work perfectly every time.

The original issue of primers to fixed rounds for the light 12 pounder (and similarly for other guns) was 48 primers for 32 fixed rounds + 2 spare powder bags.
(From Instruction for Field Artillery - Capt's. Hunt, Barry, French - differing years.. page 19 in the '61 version.)
I don't think they were mostly for practice... maybe a few... but..

Perhaps we are just being authentic with bad primers!
Heck, if they were allowing 16 spare for every 32!?!

Now here is the challenge... do we have personal accounts of the crappy primers... in actual action?

From Bate's "History of Pennsylvania in the War of the Rebellion" (or some title close to that... I've always just known it as Bate's) in the chapter on the 1st Pennsylvania Light Artillery, he talks of at the Seven Days how one battery (G) was just about to send its guns in to have the vent liners replaced when they received the orders into line. They were using 3 primers to make up the space so that they could fire 1 round. Can you imagine the size of the vents!?!

Any other period primer/related problems?


As always, your obedient servant,
Chris Sedlak

[marine05]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Three primers to take up the space in the vent?!!! That is really amazing.

S/F

Dan

[Forquer]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Gives you an idea of how often they were replacing vent bushings.

Scary stuff.

[threepdr]

Re: Faulty Friction Primers?

Since we were talking about friction primers proper handling, I thought I would add this. This passage is from "An Artilleryman's Diary" by Lloyd Jenkin Jones of the 6th Wisconson Battery. Another account blamed this accident on primers being left loose in the limber chest.

April 11 1864, Huntsville AL

"A little after noon we were startled by a ter
rible explosion near the depot. A caisson of the Illinois Battery
had exploded while returning from drill, killing six can
noneers instantly and wounding two. A very sad affair. Bod
ies torn to shreds."