Rate of Fire

[H. L. Hanger]

Under normal combat conditions, and given the various types of guns employed, how often would a typical veteran gun crew been able to fire?

One author states that, on average, a gun crew would average two rounds a minute; others have stated that could increase to as many as 4-5 rounds a minute by not sponging between every shot.

One source states that during the bombardment by Confederate artillery prior to Pickett's Charge, the gun crews moved the ammunition closer to the gun, intentionally neglecting counter-battery fire.

Would appreciate your documented opinion.

Thanks

[jake.koch]

Re: Rate of Fire

I have read three shots a minute. In practice at Vicksburg a few weeks ago, our crew made up of the veterans of our local high school volunteers was able to simulate three shots in 1 minute and 10 seconds.

[H. L. Hanger]

Re: Rate of Fire

Thanks, Jake,

Do you recall where you may have read that?

Jack

[English Doc]

Re: Rate of Fire

Gibbons 'Artillerists Manual' ,p250 states:

Rapidity of Firing. Seige mortars can be fired conveniently at the rate of 12 rounds per hour continuously...In general, a rate of fire depends on the calibre of the piece. A 24pdr takes about double the time to load and fire than a 12 pdr does.

For field guns, 30 or 40 seconds are required for the 6pdr., and one minute for a 12 pdr. The mean rate is about one shot per minute, but when close pressed, and firing at objects not difficult to hit, two or three shots per minute can be fired.

The firing of howitzers is always slower than with guns, a 24 or 32-pd field-howitzer requiring 1 1/2 minutes to load and fire it. The mean rate of a siege gun is about 8 shots an hour, though this can be increased in an emergency to 12 shots....

[BarryDusel]

Re: Rate of Fire

What would they be able to fire? I worked a gun crew for a long time in my earlier years. 3 a minute is doable but risky and in actual combat safety sometimes goes out the window. Many instances of stepped up firing throughout the conflict.That said...
Remember Henry Hunt's directive? At Fredericksburg it was 1 round every 3 minutes per gun. He issued that so the crews wouldn't deplete their Ordnance so rapidly. Also to make them be more deliberate and take aim. Finally, he issued a statement that a crew firing it's gun quicker then 1rd/3m would be charged with cowardice. Based on the premise that to do so would mean the crew was attempting to deplete it's supply so it could pull out of line for replenishment.

[RJSamp]

Re: Rate of Fire

What would they be able to fire? I worked a gun crew for a long time in my earlier years. 3 a minute is doable but risky and in actual combat safety sometimes goes out the window. Many instances of stepped up firing throughout the conflict.That said...
Remember Henry Hunt's directive? At Fredericksburg it was 1 round every 3 minutes per gun. He issued that so the crews wouldn't deplete their Ordnance so rapidly. Also to make them be more deliberate and take aim. Finally, he issued a statement that a crew firing it's gun quicker then 1rd/3m would be charged with cowardice. Based on the premise that to do so would mean the crew was attempting to deplete it's supply so it could pull out of line for replenishment.

This was long range counter battery or destroy the town fire, correct?

When pressed, an artillery crew stepped it up.....when threatened with destruction, double or even triple canister....2-3 rounds per minute... dozens of examples of firing faster than 1 round every 3 minutes....and no Federal artillery units ever charged with cowardice for firing faster than that?

The firing rates cited above are, in general, for fairly big guns that have to be run up to the fort wall aperture before firing. Light Field Artillery....12 pounder Napoleons, 12 pound howitzers, 3" ordnance rifles....different story.

[artillerybuff]

Re: Rate of Fire

I have read three shots a minute. In practice at Vicksburg a few weeks ago, our crew made up of the veterans of our local high school volunteers was able to simulate three shots in 1 minute and 10 seconds.

Did this drill of three shots in slightly over one minute include returning the gun into battery (moving the piece forward approximately 8 to 10 feet after every shot to account for recoil) and did it include worming, sponging, and sighting the piece? Just wondering, because that seems very fast!

Thanks~ Anthony Variz

[bAcK88]

Re: Rate of Fire

Did this drill of three shots in slightly over one minute include returning the gun into battery (moving the piece forward approximately 8 to 10 feet after every shot to account for recoil) and did it include worming, sponging, and sighting the piece? Just wondering, because that seems very fast!

Thanks~ Anthony Variz

We did a similar exercise to see how fast we could fire our piece. Though we only used friction primers in our drill and NO rounds, we were still operating our piece like we were in a combat situation when we were trying to fire as fast as we could. In those situations the gun would have been firing canister so we did not worm or sight the gun, we still sponged the peice and went through the motions of sponging the barrel, loading the charge, and ramming the round, AND we were still able to fire approximately 4 rounds a minute.

Did it happen often in the War? No.
Can it be done. Yes.

BB

[Danny]

Re: Rate of Fire

..The firing rates cited above are, in general, for fairly big guns that have to be run up to the fort wall aperture before firing. Light Field Artillery....12 pounder Napoleons, 12 pound howitzers, 3" ordnance rifles....different story.

RJ -

Aimed field guns, 12 pounder Napoleons included, also have to be run up to a pre-aimed position after each firing just like a gun behind a fort wall. In the open field, practice was to mark the ground and/or wheel so that a complete re-aim wouldn't be required because the gun was rolled back into prior position, especially important if the range had been found. Not such a quick maneuver, variables of the carriage rolling over uneven ground.

The bigger mounted fort guns could be brought back into alignment reasonably quick because of their stabilized carriage on even ground, less variables than with rolling stock.

Only in canister range, which didn't require as accurate a roll-up, could field guns be fired more rapidly, if that's what you mean.

(I trust you're not referring to what you've seen at reenactments, where there's no significant kick-back with a blank-fire regardless of depicting aimed shot or non-aimed cannister. The gun is fired as fast as wanted for a better show because there is no actual effect to be gauged).

Dan Wykes
Fat Neck Mess

"they'll be no more Shenendoah until we find documentation it was sung"

[RJSamp]

Re: Rate of Fire

Yes I understand that artillery recoil with live rounds is yards of distance....and they had to be run up back to the line to have an improved chance of putting subsequent rounds 'on target'. Light Field Artillery units could fire 1 aimed round per minute at say 1500 yards.....allowing for fuse cutting, returning the piece to its former spot, reaiming the piece, reloading, time of flight, bomb damage assessment and feedback on fall of shot/shell type effects....lots of hands involved, many actions can run concurrently(!), and a well drilled veteran crew to boot.

Reenacting artillery rarely fires as often as they would 'like'....many events have a mandatory 3 or ever 4 MINUTE safety time between firings...

always love it when reenactors lie down in front of a battery (say at 100 yards) while it fires....then charge forward or start picking off the gunners.....while the battery is waiting for 3 minutes to load the next round....in reality, it would be canister every 20-30 seconds....

[Danny]

Re: Rate of Fire

...Reenacting artillery rarely fires as often as they would 'like'....many events have a mandatory 3 or ever 4 MINUTE safety time between firings...

Yeah, that's what's claimed...

Dan Wykes

[jake.koch]

Re: Rate of Fire

I was searching for somthing else and came across this post and wanted to respond to a question asked of me even though it was asked months ago.

Anthony,

The simulation we did included returning the gun into battery each time, as well as worming, sponging, and sighting.

Keep in mind however that the seasonals and kids that man the Napoleon at Vicksburg(which included veterans from previous summers) do so for three months straight, five days a week, which included drill each day. That level of drill and training is such that probably has not occured since the actual war. With that said we tried for three shots in a minute after two and a half months drilling and didn't reach one minute and ten seconds until the 4th or
5th attempt. It was somthing we had read about during our research, and sounded nearly impossible to us, so we wanted to experiment and see if it was realistic.

I guess that shows how fast they could have moved during the war when adrenaline was up, people were shooting back at you, and it was literally life or death depending on how quickly you could reload and fire the gun - all depending of course upon the training that your crew received.

Regardless, it was definately a big boost for the morale of all of us that spent our summer out in the lovely Mississippi sunshine to even come close to one minute.

[Danny]

Re: Rate of Fire

...The simulation we did included returning the gun into battery each time, as well as worming, sponging, and sighting...

Worming between each round is a modern reenactorism, to accomodate blank rounds packaged in foil, which can compress in the barrel if not wormed out and possibly provide pockets for a burning ember. It's for practical safety we worm between each fire, and it's part of every drill I've ever participated in or watched.

But it's our unit's understanding that with period cloth-bagged charges or raw powder charges (at least for smooth-bore 12 lb Napoleans) the worm was merely held in reserve for any matter that failed to eject. It was not regularly used between each fire. We also have the impression that both a wet and dry sponge were not required between each fire. Depending on the situation, one sponge was considered sufficient.

If one worming and one sponging were skipped that certainly enabled more rapid fire.

Dan Wykes

[NCSoldier]

Re: Rate of Fire

With that being said, does skipping just one sponging in the firing sequence run the crew any more risk of the charge going off prematurely?

[fatocat]

Re: Rate of Fire

I found this quite interesting. "From Rapidan to Richmond":

The hardest labor, and what took most time, was running up the guns from the recoil. We had stopped a moment to rest, and let the gun cool a little, and were discussing the difficulties, when the idea occurred to us. There was an old rail fence near by. Somebody said "let's get some rails and chock the wheels to keep them from running back." This struck us all as good, and in an instant we had piled up rails behind the wheels as high as the trail would allow. The effect was, that when the gun fired it simply jerked back against this rail pile, and rested in its place, and so we were saved all the time and labor of running up. We found that we could fire three or four times as rapidly, in this way that a chocked gun was equal to four in a fight. We found this simple device of immense service! We were told by the knowing ones that we ran the greatest possible danger.
The ordnance people said that if a gun was not allowed to recoil it would certainly burst. But we didn't mind! A device that saved so much labor, and enabled us to deliver such an extraordinarily effective fire on the battlefield, we were bound to try. We found it acted beautifully.
We then knew the guns wouldn't burst for we had tried it. We used it afterward in every fight. The instant we were ordered into position, two or three cannoneers would rush off and get rails, or a log or two, to chock the guns. And on two or three very desperate emergencies, during this campaign, this device enabled us to render very important service. It made a battery equal to a battalion, and a good many other batteries took it up, and used it. I believe it added greatly to the effectiveness of our artillery in the close range fighting of this campaign