unexploded ordinance?

[Bob Herr]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

The last couple of issues of "The Artilleryman" magazine have had articles about hazards of and dealing with unexploded CW shells. I think there were some contacts in the articles. I could dig them out and FAX or mail to you if it would be of help. - Bob Herr

[VaTrooper]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

If it's fused which it appears to be then I would absolutely consider it a live shell. It's not gonna just blow up but you should treat it with reasonable care... ie don't pound on it with a hammer or put it next to a heat source. Surprisingly enough the powder in those shells is more times than not still just about as good as it ever was but there is no reason for everyone to freak out for crying out loud! Contact Bob at Centreville Electronics regarding having it disarmed. http://www.cwrelics.com/ He'll tell you everything you probably want to know. As far as telling the authorities... you're best bet is to keep your lip zipped...find out where that yard is, get a metal detector and dig the rest of them yourself if there even are any more. Have them disarmed and you'd have a pretty sweet display. Tell the authorities,... they'll come in and take away what could likely be a substantial amount of value in artillery shells. Just because they are the "authorities" doesn't mean they have a clue. A few years ago the "authorities" were called in to remove some "unexploded" ordinance. They reportedly took it to their disposal area,... set the charges and detonated a 12 lb solid shot with obviously no result what so ever.

That thing has been laying around for 140+ years and hasn't blown up. It's not gonna blow up because someone's granddaughter dug it up. Don't freak out.... it's not that big of a deal. People dig them all the time....seriously. Call Bob regarding getting that one disarmed... get a metal detector and go dig the rest of them! If I didn't live so far away,... I'd be happy to come clear that yard of artillery shells for you. :D

I'm not sure it's real. But if it turns out to be follow Greg's advice here.

[KyCavMajor]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

Just a little further information after examining it myself.

The plugs are nearly opposite each other, so I think we can rule out Confederate Side loader.

It weighs almost exactly 12 lbs and is almost exactly 4 1/2 inches

It certainly appears to be a cannonball, but what type and how it got there is a mystery. What purpose a threaded fuse hole and another lead plug would serve on a gate weight or ornament I can't imagine.

The yard it was found in is on top of a hill commanding the town along approach Morgan used into Salem Indiana. Local legend maintains he camped across the street briefly. Were I him, the spot this was found is where I would post Artillery, it commands his rear, and the town.It is purely interesting speculation and conjecture as to whether this is a dropped or misplaced round. It would seem unlikely someone could lose a cannonball, but stranger things happen. There have been other artifacts recovered from the camp site across the street.

The town of Salem has a great little local museum for John Milton Hay who was a personal secretary to President Abraham Lincoln and served as U.S. Secretary of State under Presidents McKinley and Roosevelt and they have expressed an interest if it in fact is a cannonball. They control the rebuilt Salem Train Depot, which Morgan burned after discovering the locals had placed tools in the strongbox instead of cash to deceive him. They still have the original strong box on display.

So the next step is to send it off to one of the experts to determine what exactly it is, and whether or not it is armed, and then if it is authentic, not will be displayed for future generations.

[33rd VA Co. H]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

Though I have a bit more than a clue...I'll certainly admit that I'm not an expert when it comes to artillery and Jim and John could possibly be correct about it being a fence weight as it's kind of hard to tell from a photo and I'm certainly not a farmer either. What I will say for certain is that if you contact ANY authorities you will lose that piece. There is no reason to do anything other than contacting someone to disarm it. People seriously DO dig them all the time and so you won't think I'm blowing smoke....here are a couple of photos of a shell dug in Louisa, Virginia last month. It's a Schenkl with a percussion fuse. This shell is relatively rare in that it contains the percussion variety fuse which had an 82% detonation rate. You just don't find these whole very often. It's already been disarmed and cleaned and is sitting on a shelf with many of it's brothers and sisters and the Virginia plate that was dug 4 feet away. The bottom line is,.... call Bob at http://www.cwrelics.com and send it off to be taken care of. You'll get it back cleaned and safe for all time.

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

I would bet 100% that its solid and doesnt have an any charge to it. The only hole that could be a fuse hole is filled with lead, so if thats the case it more than likely completely filled with lead.

The configuration of the two holes match no artillery shell known. Nor does either of the holes contain any type of fuse or fuse adaptor. For that type of shell it would either be a time fuse adaptor or a Borman type fuse. To my knowledge there were no percussion fuses used in spherical shells, nor would it make sense that they would be.

Interesting piece none the less.

John Walsh
FDR

[missourirelics]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

I agree 100% with John.

Paul Arnold

[marine05]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

Just did some quick research, during Hunt's raid his artillery consisted of 7 guns, 1 3in. Parrott rifle, 2 mountain howitzers, and in Palmer's battery, 2 12 pounder howitzers and 2 six pounders. Now the 12 pounders had a bore of 4.62 in, and the 6 pounder 3.67 inches. So in theory it could have been a 12 pounder round.

Not sure if it is a round, I also don't know if one would get "lost" as much of the ammuntion for those type pieces is fixed, unlike a Parrott or Ordnance Rifle where the charge and round were rammed separately. I could see a powder bag being lost as when firing double canister the second rounds powder bag was removed.

Looks like a very interesting find.

S/F

DJM

[Charles Heath]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

It may bode well for some folks to seek and discover the not so subtle difference between "ordinance" and "ordnance." (Boldface added for emphasis.)

[marine05]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

You, the former is a law the latter hardware

[Longbranch 1]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

Sirs,

In my humble opinion any ordnance related relic should be considered " live " until authoritatively proven otherwise.

Relying only on my memory, and if anyone can help me with a specific citation;

Was there not an occurance during WWII on the Outer Banks ? Wilmington area of NC where Coastwatchers found unexploded ordnance, used the same as andirons, resulting in injuries and fatalities?

Thanks and Regards,
Kevin Ellis, 26th NCT

[Jimmayo]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

Sirs,

In my humble opinion any ordnance related relic should be considered " live " until authoritatively proven otherwise.

Unfortunally it is hard to find anyone in authority who knows enough about Civil War ordance to make a valid decision. The mindset seems to be blow up everything and take no chances. There used to be some knowledable EOD people at Ft. Lee in Petersburg. When the interstates were being built through Petersburg, they made regular trips to the jobsites to pick up the artillery shells that had been unearthed that day.

As far as using shells for andirons, there is an account of a Lt. in a Union unit stationed in Portsmouth that had one on his hut hearth. It blew the end off of his hut.

[stx]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

In regards to weither or not it's a fence weight, I would think there would be more than one left there. Assuming that the grand daughter is semi young and only using a shovel, the ball couldn't have been buried very deep. Follow the property line and you may find another. Or she could have just been lucky enough to find a cannon ball. My .02.

[yankeecav]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

Since this is in Salem, IN you might give the Frazier Arms Museum in Louisville, KY a call and see if they have or know of a local expert that can come out and take a look at it. The number for Frazier Arms Museum is 502.753.5663. I hope that they can help save it if it is ordnance.

Tom Lowe
42 Ind. Inf. & Tar Water Mess

[Mbond057]

Re: unexploded ordinance?

Here are a few good articles explaining the danger and preservation efforts of unexploded munitions from the Civil War. These relics are as deadly as they are important for us to study. Just make sure you know what you are doing. The graveyards are full of a whole lot of people who thought they knew what they were doing. :)

Civil War ordnance still poses danger
By Maj. Ben Bigelow and Lou Dell'Orco
St. Louis District

http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/apr01/story6.htm

Buffs incensed over destruction of Civil War items
By Kim Sloan
Dalton Daily Citizen

http://www.northwestgeorgia.com/local/local_story_207232620.html

Agents Blow Up Still Loaded Civil War Artifact
Reece Murphy

http://www.dunndailyrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=87266