Use of worm / powder bags (redirect from hearing Loss..)

[Danny]

As for today's use of the worm, it is certainly necessary. Where most reenactors fall into error is when #2 is constantly holding the worm throughout operations. There are plenty of images that show #2 with his hands empty. No reason why after worming, #2 can't place the worm back on the carriage.

As to your question about ammunition, the answer depends on the type of piece you are servicing. For smoothbore pieces firing fixed ammunition, per the 1861 Ordnance Manual, refer to pages 277-278. Powder bags are filled and levelled in a magazine. They are removed to another room where the sabot of the strapped shot is placed directly on top of the powder. The open end of the bag is tied around the groove of the sabot. Once the bag is tied, it is gauged to make sure it will fit the caliber of the barrel.

I've run across nothing in the manuals that refers to the powder bags of rifled guns. Since they are seperate from the round, it would stand to reason that the bags would be filled, levelled, and then sewn at the arsenal.

Greg -

Thanks for the information. Our drill does in fact have us returning the worm to carriage as we replace it with the other implement. Your explanation of smooth-bore charges and the bags therof would not of course apply to solid ball projectiles, which have no groove. Was it that the entire ball was enclosed in bag? or more likely a separate powder bag preceded the ball as the cannon is charged. That would mean cloth bags of powder were provided from an arsenal and were stored in Battery, or perhaps the empty bags were provided from aresenal an filled in preparation of battle behind the front line.

Dan Wykes

[Forquer]

Re: Use of worm / powder bags (redirect from hearing Loss..)

Greg -

Thanks for the information. Our drill does in fact have us returning the worm to carriage as we replace it with the other implement. Your explanation of smooth-bore charges and the bags therof would not of course apply to solid ball projectiles, which have no groove. Was it that the entire ball was enclosed in bag? or more likely a separate powder bag preceded the ball as the cannon is charged. That would mean cloth bags of powder were provided from an arsenal and were stored in Battery, or perhaps the empty bags were provided from aresenal an filled in preparation of battle behind the front line.

Dan Wykes

Dan -

Fixed ammunition was used by smoothbores. Rifled projectiles had the powder bag and the round loaded seperately.

With fixed ammunition (solid shot, spherical case, shell), the ball is strapped to the wooden sabot with sheet tin straps. The assembly was then placed, sabot down, on top of the levelled powder in the bag. The bag is then lifted over the sabot. Twine is tied around the bag and sabot at the top groove of the sabot. The top of the bag is then pulled down over the tie that was just made and a second tie is made in the second groove below. A final tie is made just below the sabot to keep powder from shifting up inside between the bag and sabot. The can for canister is fastened to the sabot with nails or brads, but the powder bag is fixed in the same way. The shot is not covered over with the bag. Instead, a paper cylinder and cap are made to be placed over the powder bag. The paper was stained a specific color to indicate the type of round that it covered (shell - black; sperical case - red; shot - not colored). The paper cylinder is tied to the sabot and the round is gauged again. If it correct, then the cap is placed on the round and it is sent to another section of the arsenal for packing.

Rounds were prepared at the arsenals, boxed, and then shipped to the army. In the Union army, the boxes for shot were to be painted olive, shell was black, spherical case was red, and canister was light drab.

If you haven't invested in it, I strongly suggest acquiring a copy of the 1861 Ordnance Manual.

[mladair]

Re: Use of worm / powder bags (redirect from hearing Loss..)

See here for an example

http://www.civilwarartillery.com/projectiles/spherical/IIIA2.htm

[Danny]

Re: Use of worm / powder bags (redirect from hearing Loss..)

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#26 06-07-2007, 08:23 AM
Just a common mans few words in reference to cloth verses foil powder charges. Just think of all the events over the years that have fire danger restrictions, which is especially common here in the west. A cloth bag down the bore would drive event organizers nuts. Personnaly I think foil is a good trade off considering the other option would be a fire bucket brigade on hand at all times.

Kevin Hall
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Kevin -

Witness what happened at the actual Battle of the Wilderness, fires as likely set off by Artillery as from Infantry activity.

My unit has kept extinguishers in the ammo box when in a dry area. Even though like most other units we use aluminum foil rather than cloth bags.

Maybe this discussion is marginal for an AC authentic forum.

Perhaps we could accept the risk of authentic materials, cloth bags (and only water pails for fire supression) in a campaign-style technical event. But we have to be concerned about the more public events that have closely-viewing bystanders, and also for the private or public land on which we are allowed to have these events.

Dan Wykes
Batt. G, 2nd Ill

[vamick]

Re: Use of worm / powder bags (redirect from hearing Loss..)

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Perhaps we could accept the risk of authentic materials, cloth bags (and only water pails for fire supression) in a campaign-style technical event. But we have to be concerned about the more public events that have closely-viewing bystanders, and also for the private or public land on which we are allowed to have these events.

Dan Wykes
Batt. G, 2nd Ill

My two cents worth would be..a cloth bag is freakin crazy!..How would that possibly make it by the safety fairy?? even if you used the 'dead battery' method NPS uses ( 10 minutes between shots..try that in the real war and units like battery M 2nd US artillery, Randol's battery 2nd US artillery, Stuart horse artillery, Washington artillery, Richmond howitzers ..ect ect..would tear you a new vent hole!) in the real deal you surely would be a "dead battery" with those men returning fire..Whenever Pennington's battery M and 1st Stuart locked horns it was always a bloodbath because they're gunners were quick on finding the range, and merciless on delivering the fire..waiting long enough to have a picknick between shots is just as farby as anything I can think of and delivers just as skewed a message to the public. who wonders that anyone was killed by an artillery battery shooting sooooo slllllllooooowwww...ad to that mix, no worm..with a CLOTH bag...and well, I'd predict that # uno man is gonna be big in pirate reenacting as Capt. Hook!

[Danny]

Re: Use of worm / powder bags (redirect from hearing Loss..)

Did I not state to consider cloth bags for technical events -- where the public is not a factor?

After all, paper wadding from rifles is no less "crazy" in fire-starting terms and is in regualar use, even with public present.

- Dan Wykes