Improving Artillery Drill

[hta1970]

As a break off from the "Improving Artillery Impressions," I thought we should try to deal with each of the points in separate topics.

First off how can we improve our drill.

As mentioned all drill starts with French Berry Hunt, so here are links to free copies of the manual for everyone to enjoy.

Let me know if there are any issues with them working.

Instructions for Field Artillery by French Berry Hunt 1860
http://books.google.com/books?id=sr6...&ie=ISO-8859-1

Instructions for Field Artillery by French Berry Hunt 1861
http://books.google.com/books?id=5nE...8859-1#PPR2,M1

Instructions for Field Artillery by French Berry Hunt 1863
http://books.google.com/books?id=FrF...8859-1#PPR3,M1

Instructions for Field Artillery by French Berry Hunt 1864
http://books.google.com/books?id=G2c...8859-1#PPR1,M1

And here is a copy of Gilham's Manual of Instruction for the Volunteers and Militia of the Confederate States 1861
http://books.google.com/books?id=xmw...8859-1#PPR1,M1

Does anyone have a pdf copy of the NPS manual available for the members of this forum to read and review?

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

I'll check with my supervisor to see if a pdf version of our training literature is available.

[Mbond057]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

Here is a copy of the Maryland State Park Standards for Reenactors.

Maryland Park Standards for Reenactors.pdf

[TGreene]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

In looking at the School of the Piece in Gilhams Light Artillery Tactics, Andrews' Mounted Artillery Drill, and the Field Artillery Tactics, 1864 by Barry, French, and Hunt, all have the same drill and are almost word for word. I'm not sure about the other parts of the drill. Some parts that are typically changed today are that we typically don't have number 3 wait to hear the command "Fire" before moving away from the gun and we typically have Number 2 serve vent until the round is rammed instead of just until the round is inserted in the drill. Other parts have been changed by some of course, but those are the only obvious differences I notice with the NPS drill. With that said, it should be easy to coordinate between units that are just using the period manuals. The hard part is coordinating the various versions come up with that are supposedly safer. (I find it hard to believe that they would come up with a drill so unsafe as to further endanger their men when they needed every man they could get.)
Also, I found a reference from the Richmond Dispatch, 22 May 1898 from http://www.mdgorman.com/Hospitals/old_camp_lee.htmwhich says,

"Colonel Shields, in a recent letter to a friend, gives an interesting explanation of the thorough preparation of the Richmond Howitzers for field serviced before the war came on.

The Howitzer Company was organized in 1859, and instructed in 1860 in artillery tactics prepared by a board of artillery, officers-

Generals Barry, Hunt, and French-but not issued to the Federal army till 1861.

Colonel Shields, as a publisher, had facilities for obtaining a copy of the tactics from the publishing house in the summer of 1860, and so it was that the Howitzers were equal to the Federal artillery in that respect before the war commenced. Every battery equipped at Camp Lee under his command was instructed in the new tactics."
Earlier in the article, they reference a number of units that were trained there. If this is true, then it looks like a number of ANV units used Barry, French, and Hunt.

Tim Greene

[marine05]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

All,

We use HBF drill and for reenactments or NPS events do minor modifications. One, as we have a 10 pounder Parrot, we ram twice, first to simulate the charge, second (with blank charge) to simulate projectile, except when loading canister. We also will stop tending the vent during ramming, but WILL do it at NPS or State Park events. Note: Non-believers have to be reminded of a kazoo, if no air is allowed out of the kazoo the slide won't move (hence no sound) so a charge and projectile will be difficult to ram with the vent stopped.

HBF is pretty simple three basic command Load, Ready, Fire. Not much room for error, KISS!

We did conduct a school for HBF drill at Old Bedford Village two Februarys ago and while the turnout was high, many that felt strongly concerning safety steps inserted by Niagra and other places, reverted back to their normal drill as soon as they left.

However the result was we "networked" with other Redlegs and we have been fortunate in being able to "flesh out" units for more authentic events.

S/F

DJM

[artillerybuff]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

Interesting how your unit feels the need to cease stopping the vent during loading, the most potentially dangerous part of the drill. I have read about implements being shot down field when ramming at reenactments. In fact, it happened at an Eastern event last year. Turns out they were not sponging or stopping the vent correctly if I am not mistaken. Rammer ended up in a tree on the other side of the field, and the no. 1 man went to the hospital.

Our unit shoots over 800 blank rounds per year out of our guns and on average 80 or so live rounds annually and have never had a pressure concern or loading problem with the vent stopped.


2nd Lt. Anthony A. Variz
Battery D 5th US

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

If you are instructing other units not to tend the vent at your "schools" you are opening yourself up for a world of liability when one of your students gets injured, which is bound to happen sooner or later if they follow your instructions.

If you do not stop vent you are creating a bellows effect inside the tube which will cause embers to flare up. It's just like blowing on embers to get a campfire started in the morning. Ideally, the air flow is supposed to exit around the spongehead instead of up through the vent, thus allowing the air to exit the tube, but not across any embers.

What kind of material are you using for a sponge head that makes it too difficult for your number one to ram it home?

I have to agree with Lt. Variz, omitting the most important safety feature of the drill is beyond reckless.

[vamick]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

We also use HBF but stop vent when ramming! Ocasionaly we may have a round that for whatever reason is slightly off bore gauge maybe a wee bit tighter than necessary when that happens a slight squeeze by # 2 man when loading ( causing a 'dimple' on the bore surface of the round) usually does the trick letting a lil air escape by the round, but still maintaining the seal at the vent...I really sweat it when I have to ram a tight tight round ( imagining all sorts of friction being built up along the bore surfaces of the round)...probably just in my head tho ....still makes my neck a lil wet tho!:D

[Mbond057]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

When constructing blank rounds, I would not make the rounds so tight that they fit very snug in the bore. You have a good possibility of ripping the round and having loose powder in the bore from the round being damaged because it’s too tight when ramming. You also don’t want a small round that tumbles down the bore. This takes some practice constructing rounds that fit just right for your gun tube.

As far as not stopping the vent, that isn’t a safe practice period. It’s not if an accident will occur, it’s only when. Both Tony and David made excellent points on vent stopping.

[sedlakchristopher]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

Gentlemen,

We have been stewing over the #3 man's vent stopping as well.

Hunt, Barry and French is very clear in that he stops the vent until "the round is inserted into the tube" however the NPS does follow the stopping of the vent until the round is rammed.

I am curious as to if anyone has data on recent accidents (recent being since re-enacting "began") and if this issue has played a vital role?
Data meaning time/place and witness statements, etc... not just my buddy said...
Or if there were original incidents during the war of this issue being a problem?
I know there are some collections of artillery accidents out there, but I don't have any of them nor can find them online.

Shouldn't sparks be out at this point if a 3, 5 or 10 minute delay between rounds is observed?

If rounds are made properly there shouldn't be any powder exposure until the priming wire, correct?

Are there any cases where a misfire occured while #3 was stopping and what were his injuries?

I'm sitting on the fence on this one.

Remember, let us keep this forum civil.


Chris Sedlak

[Mbond057]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

During the Gettysburg Battle on July 2nd the First New Jersey, Battery B, U.S. under the command of Captain A. Judson Clark fired more artillery rounds in one day then any other artillery battery during the Civil War. A total of 1,330 rounds were fired by Battery B from their six 2.9 Parrot rifles. They were positioned between the base of Little Round Top and the Peach Orchard (Murray, 2000).

I have been told by several historians that at least two of the Clark’s Parrot guns fired so fast that the barrels heated and there were constant embers in the tubes and chamber. The number 3 man kept a steady thumb on the vent. After the round was seated and the piece sited the number 3 man would release the vent and the Parrot would fire without using a friction primer. It was stated that the hot embers were so plentiful from the rapid firing and burning in the chamber that no friction primer was used and that by releasing the vent the embers received air igniting the powder bags. If this is true account the number 1 and 2 men had big brass ones. I also figure that the number 3 man was quick on his feet after releasing the vent because the Parrot has a kick when she fires and recoils back a few feet quickly.

Has anyone else heard this story, and if so do you have a reference so that I can read about this occurring?

Reference

Murray, R. L. (2000). E. P. Alexander and the artillery action in the peach orchard. New York: Benedum Books.

[marine05]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

If you are instructing other units not to tend the vent at your "schools" you are opening yourself up for a world of liability when one of your students gets injured, which is bound to happen sooner or later if they follow your instructions.

If you do not stop vent you are creating a bellows effect inside the tube which will cause embers to flare up. It's just like blowing on embers to get a campfire started in the morning. Ideally, the air flow is supposed to exit around the spongehead instead of up through the vent, thus allowing the air to exit the tube, but not across any embers.

What kind of material are you using for a sponge head that makes it too difficult for your number one to ram it home?

I have to agree with Lt. Variz, omitting the most important safety feature of the drill is beyond reckless.

It is interesting reading the tangent that has been taken, the first post concerned HBF and the way it was written, mine concerned using that drill and what NPS/State Parks needed...next thing you see is folks discussing not stopping a vent during sponging to rounds being made improperly...wow! Like the commercial says "didn't see that coming."

You have really misunderstood what I wrote, it has nothing to do with the sponge head, rounds, rammer, #1, or the price of tea in China; of course we stop vent during sponging. If you read the original post concerning HBF drill, the vent is not stopped during ramming. At that point, you've sponged, extinguished any embers, etc and are putting a charge and round down the tube. So it would be extremely unlikely that embers would still be in the chamber or bore.

Plus I never stated a "need" to refrain from stopping the vent as I mentioned HBF states #3 "stops vent until the round is inserted into the tube."

Where did you EVER get the idea that we did not stop vent during sponging??!

And who ever mentioned re-enactor rounds or rounds being made too large to fit into the tube.

It would behoove all of us to read the full post, digest and then respond, or go back a couple of posts to read what the original poster wrote. Don't assume for we know it can make an ass of u & me.

At least no one stated the "we have certified (fill in the blank)" because we attended the East Cupcake school of knob polishing!! Yes we know how the folks with those nice bright bronze guns like to see their knobs gleam!!!

S/F

DJM

[marine05]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

During the Gettysburg Battle on July 2nd the First New Jersey, Battery B, U.S. under the command of Captain A. Judson Clark fired more artillery rounds in one day then any other artillery battery during the Civil War. A total of 1,330 rounds were fired by Battery B from their six 2.9 Parrot rifles. They were positioned between the base of Little Round Top and the Peach Orchard (Murray, 2000).

I have been told by several historians that at least two of the Clark’s Parrot guns fired so fast that the barrels heated and there were constant embers in the tubes and chamber. The number 3 man kept a steady thumb on the vent. After the round was seated and the piece sited the number 3 man would release the vent and the Parrot would fire without using a friction primer. It was stated that the hot embers were so plentiful from the rapid firing and burning in the chamber that no friction primer was used and that by releasing the vent the embers received air igniting the powder bags. If this is true account the number 1 and 2 men had big brass ones. I also figure that the number 3 man was quick on his feet after releasing the vent because the Parrot has a kick when she fires and recoils back a few feet quickly.

Has anyone else heard this story, and if so do you have a reference so that I can read about this occurring?

Reference

Murray, R. L. (2000). E. P. Alexander and the artillery action in the peach orchard. New York: Benedum Books.

Number three must have been pretty nimble and quick to get out of the way of the recoil!!

That is a very interesting story, had not heard that one.

The only AARs or unit histories I have read that mentioned not sponging between rounds was during rare instances of firing cannister. Also read a unit history of an instance when a battery was assisted by infantry due to reduced battery numbers. Well as one well knows when using "double" cannister with Parrots, the powder charge is removed from the second round...well the infantyman grabbed two complete cannister rounds and they were both loaded!

S/F

DJM

[artillerybuff]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

I understood your post perfectly; you do not stop the vent while ramming a round because you claim to have pressure build up from close fitting rounds. In 10 years and literally thousands of rounds fired I have never seen this phenomenum, and see no valid reason to stop tending the vent during loading, period. It is not a wise practice.

Yes, all embers SHOULD be extinguished by the time you load your round, however, the possibility always exists that an ember could be hidden back in the chamber behind a small piece of aluminum foil that did not come out with worming or in the vent itself. I have seen the foil remnants come out completely in tact as a full tube, partially blow out in pieces, or completely blow out as confetti, as well as blown into the vent. Does anyone really want to take a chance on that? I'm not...

This is why we check the vent after each shot, worm every time, double sponge, and keep that vent stopped.

If you feel our safety steps are too redundant and unnecessary, that is your prerogative, and we will just have to agree to disagree.

Respectfully,

2nd Lt. Anthony A. Variz
Battery D

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Improving Artillery Drill

You are correct, I was mistaken when I assumed you did not tend the vent during sponging, primarily because I considered the alternative so mindboggling (not tending the vent because of resistance in the tube while ramming a charge) that my mind immediately looked for the most logical problem. That is why I asked about sponges. But what are you loading into your gun with so close a tolerance that air pressure is a problem during ramming?

As for mention of "knob polishing schools" I have no idea what you are talking about. You are the only one on this thread who claimed to have taught a school for artillerymen.

I stand on the NPS policy of tending the vent whenever anything, be it a sponge, rammer, or worm is inserted into the barrel. Our safety record speaks for itself (knock on wood), NPS crews have fired tens of thousands of rounds in the last forty years without a single accident that resulted in injuries. Hardly a year goes by without some reenacting crew or civilian with a Civil War cannon blowing arms and fingers off during a firing. The NPS must be doing something right.

Again I concur with Lt. Variz, there are too many variables out there to leave anything to chance by leaving a vent untended during ramming. One must always treat their artillery piece as if the potential for embers in the barrel exists. In one accident, the #2 put to much water on the sponge, causing the embers to crust over and float in a pool in the back of the breech for some time between firings. If you have ever tried to douse a charcoal grill with gallons of water, you know what I mean.

While HBF states differently, there is plenty of evidence out there in letters and diaries that Civil War crews tended the vent during ramming. I have an account in my files of a battery at Resaca that lost several men to faulty vents, and the injuries always came in pairs: digits on number 3, and lower arms of number 1.

I apologize if I came across as sarcastic in my posts. Like just about everyone else in this forum, I am passionate about the hobby and truly want to see improvements among us artillerymen. Toward that end I sometimes get caught up in the heat of a debate and mouth off. Please forgive me.