Three Federal képi patch questions.

[GAR]

Gentlemen,

I bought a cavalry officer kepi from Uniforms of Antiquity which arrived with the infantry bugle patch by mistake. The replacement patch didn't arrive in time for the Kingston, MO reenactment this past weekend, so I bought a patch from James Country Mercantile to use. Now that the replacement patch is here, I see there are subtle differences. One has "fat", straight sabres and the second one has SLIGHTLY longer, thinner, and curved sabres. Was the second patch used in the ACW or is it an IW design? Again, subtle differences, not the really long and thin, curved sabres. I've not been able to find a clear image on line to confirm which is correct.

Second question: How common was it to have the regimental number embroidered in silver above the crossed scabbards on the smaller kepi patch? I've put it on the larger patch for my Hardee hat and it looks great, but I wasn't sure if this was common for the smaller patch as well.

Third question: What about having the brass company letter on the top disk / crown? I know officer's had a lot of leeway, but I'm not sure if this would be a common practice, and I've found no period photos of Kansas cavalry officers to use as a guide.

Trying to get it right!

Thanks in advance,

Gary

[Secesh]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Why not use your kepi "sans patch", which was the more common....? Thanks.

[GAR]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Well, I lied. There is this picture of the 15 Kansas Cavalry, which shows how un-uniform the uniforms were, and the variety of headgear used. Unfortunately, the image isn't clear enough to show what some of the had on the crown. I'm sure the one officer would be criticized at an reenactment for wearing a "cowboy" hat.

http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/222067/page/1

Tom, thanks for the input. As a newly formed unit, I want to "advertise" it with numbers and letters if I can.

[GAR]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

This one of me was taken on Sunday. Very "Army of the Potomac" was one of the comments I got.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3006940707554&set=a.1313761619135.38950.1683514439&type=3&theater

[Tom Craig]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Gary,

I applaud your efforts to get things right. I think however you are working hard at using the wrong resources to get the desired effect.

The photo of the original 15th KS is an excellent resource, with some GREAT hats. Stuff like that should be your guide. There is no one in that picture who has anything close to resembling a cowboy hat, and if you showed up with a faithful repro of any of those hats you'd be welcome at any event.

If you don't own a copy yet, you ought to seek out Time-Life's Echos of Glory series. I know where you're at that originals can be hard to come by, but the EoG series has some excellent examples to go from. That, and there are a nearly endless sea of original photos to use.

I'm not familiar with Uniforms of Antiquity so I can't comment on the quality of their reproductions. I am familiar with James County Mercantile, and I can tell you that they are not AC quality. The products you got from either may, or may not be faithful, accurate reproductions of originals, so without seeing a picture of them, it's hard to say anything about them. I can't access your event photo due to a internet filter here at work.

Officers in the federal cavalry were responsible for their own uniforms and as such their clothing was hardly uniform. What they wore depended largely on taste, personal wealth, and the culture of the regiment to which they belonged. Because officer stuff was private purchase there is a wide variety of styles etc which could be appropriate. I know it doesn't answer your question, but the only thing that really will will be to do as much research as you can, and develop your own eye for what looks correct.

Don't worry about trying to advertise your new unit with an alphabet soup on your hat. Do what is accurate, and THAT will be your best advertisement. If you have a quality impression, you will stand out and people will know who you are.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[GAR]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Let's see if this works-

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

In fulfilling a government specification there can be quite a bit of variance. That's true now and was true than. By that I mean the government wants a company to meet certain requirements but in doing that two companies can and will do that but produce two similar but different products. Where I am going with this is the thickness and coloring of the sabers on a patch or any other type of insignia could be varied but be correct. If you look through the EOG series the items are similar but different too.

Insignia was worn throughout the Civil War...not be everyone but by some. The bugles, crossed sabers etc. have been found at most Civil War sites regardless of the year. Some insignia are even found with holes punched through them so they could be sewn or pinned to the hat after the soldering loops were broken. This tells me that some guys went out of there way to maintain their insignia on their hats.

A period picture is a great reference but for just one moment in time. We really do not have a complete knowledge of who wore everything at every moment. Having said that ten troopers riding around with full brass would look a little out of place.

Just my three cents.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Great photo of the 15th KS cav officers!!! Loved the array of hats! Very informative! Thank you!

Ken R Knopp

[Hank Trent]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

I'm curious about the yellow brow-band and breast strap on the horse, and the crossed sabers on the breast strap. I don't know that much about cavalry, and even less about western cavalry, so that's not something I've noticed before. Is it a western thing? An officer's thing?

What Tom Craig said about the hats in the photo, though:

There is no one in that picture who has anything close to resembling a cowboy hat, and if you showed up with a faithful repro of any of those hats you'd be welcome at any event.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[The Bloody 6th]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

I also noticed the crossed sabers and unit designator. Was this a common practice by Union Cavalry?

[GAR]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Thank you all for your input. Here is some background on my unit as presented by the Kansas National Guard Museum.

"The organization of F company was commenced Oct. 19th, 1861. This company was recruited for the purpose of protecting the citizens of the south and southwest frontier against the merciless savages and inhuman bushwhackers that were infesting that portion of Kansas. They had already sacked and robbed the town of Humboldt, and killed or carried away many of the best citizens and settlers in that vicinity. Enraged at the outrages already committed, and continually expecting a repetition of these crimes, the people rallied, old and young, for the protection of their homes. The company went into winter quarters at Paola, where it performed all the duties required of regular soldiers – scouting, picketing and patrolling the country for many miles around. They performed this duty throughout that long and cold winter, furnishing their own subsistence, munitions and accoutrements. They continued their outposts and scouting parties when so destitute of everything necessary for such service that those going on duty borrowed clothing, &c., from those in camp. Notwithstanding the difficulties and embarrassments in their way they continued the organization, and rendered most effective service in the protection of that portion of Kansas. January 16th, 1862, the company, numbering eighty-one men, was regularly mustered into the United States service. On the 27th of March, 1862, this company was designated F company, Ninth Regiment Kansas Volunteer Cavalry."

Hank- Yellow breast collars and bridle bands were used in the civil war and it was an officer only thing. Besides being depicted in many period paintings, I posted a link several months ago to an modern photo example of one that was part of an estate sale (remember the leopard skin pommel holsters?). Most of the known repro saddlers offer them, but I constructed my own since this is likely what would have been done by Kansas officers as supplies from the East were very slow to get here. They fell out of favor for anything other than parade use as the war went on because they stuck out like a bulls-eye for enemy fire. Since this is 1862, that fact hasn't occurred to me yet. I'm attempting to overcompensate a bit to build esprit de corps in a new company that is lacking in uniforms and supplies.

Robert- Leather hearts with brass cavalry sabers were also used (per my conversation with Doug Kidd) and I chose to use this rather than the overused brass eagle hearts. Again, I made my own.

As you can see from the 15th Kansas photo, officers embellished to suit their own tastes. There was a very good reason to adorn with regimental numbers and company letters. Besides unit pride, and Kansans had a whole lot of that, any troopers captured by Border Ruffians would not want to be mistaken as part of Jennison's infamous 7th Kansas. They would more than likely still be shot, but at least not tortured first and have their dead bodies desecrated. The mutual blood lust and atrocities of this area are well known and documented. You fellas in the east think the war started in '61. The Civil War was raging in Kansas for 5 years before Sumpter was fired upon. Did you know that Kansas supplied more soldiers per capita than any other state? We were brand new as a state, and had more than a vested interest in the conflict.

So, does anyone know if numbers were embroidered on officer kepis?

[Pennvolunteer]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Gary,
I applaud your efforts to get it right. We are just to the south of you here in the Trans-Mississippi, down in the Indian Territory at Fort Sill, OK. I know Mike Bradley of Uniforms of Antiquity, and he is a great guy and I like him a lot. I also know Dell Warren of James Country, and personally a good guy. However, I agree with the earlier comment about James Country not being AC quality at all. Uniforms of Antiquity is one I say it depends on the situation. Mike in fact produced some excellent model 1839 Forage Caps (wheel hats) for the Field Artillery Museum for a Mexican War exhibit we did, as well as some for our living history Gun crew for our Model 1841 6 pdr. Mexican War is his original forte. However, when I buy CW headgear for the museum, I strictly stick to AC vendors, Dirty Billy, Wambaugh& White (Anderson caps), Bender and Starbuck just to name a few we have patronized. Again, Mike Bradley can do great things, and has, but I use him for selected Mexican War items.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Hallo!

The regimental number on officer's velvet insignia goes back at least as far as the March 1858 General order No. 3. And repeats on the G.O. 72 of July 1872.

Beyond that, as already shared... there is what the regulations specified went on the dress hat, and what (company letter only) went on the forage cap.

HOWEVER, what was regulation and what was done in the field, or done by volunteer units in terms of fully decked-out dress hats down to partially decked-out dress hats, down to what went on "slouch" hats, down to what went on forage caps..... and then down to nothing at all on dress hats, slouch hats, and forage caps.... is a bewildering variety varying by the unit, time, sometimes even company, and sometimes even the individual soldier.

Curt

[GAR]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Frank, the kepi is very well constructed. Mike used two pieces of leather sewn together for the bill and it is properly lined. My forage cap came from Dirty Billy and is also of great quality, but $59 shipped from Mike versus $150 plus from Dirty Billy, may have influenced my decision. I believe I paid $95 for my forage cap at his store in '09. It's now $120. I had more money to spend in '09 than I do now, but if someone wants to sponsor me... ?
For those who are interested, here is something I wrote for our Facebook page.

Why I formed the 9th.
When I started reenacting a few years ago, I wanted to be part of a Federal mounted cavalry. With the rich history of the area, I was shocked to learn that there wasn't a Kansas cavalry unit being portrayed. After all, the Civil War had really started here, some 5 years before the firing on Fort Sumpter, with the brutal conflict known as "Bleeding Kansas". When the war became "official" in 1861, Kansas men more than answered the call. As a matter of fact, Kansas had the highest enlisted rate per capita than any other state in the war.
With no other local options, I joined the 2nd Colorado Volunteers, a very proud unit which had fought with great distinction in the greater Kansas City area. Unfortunately, they were not formed until December of 1863, nor first saw service until 1864, not good news for those of us wishing to take part in the 150th anniversary chronological events.
In researching the Kansas archives, I believe I've learned why there were no Kansas Cavalry Civil War reenactment units. They weren't here! All Kansas cavalry regiments were scattered in every direction, as far from home as New Mexico and Colorado, protecting settlers from Indians, protecting supply lines, protecting stage and mail routes or fighting the war from Arkansas, etc.. In part, this was due to the "bad blood" created during "Bleeding Kansas" where atrocities were commited on a regular basis by both sides, "Bushwackers" and "Jayhawkers" alike. Colonel Jennison, and his 7th Cavalry "Red Leg" Jayhawkers in particular, were ordered in 1862 to "stay out of Missouri", and were sent to fight east of the Mississippi River.
I consulted with a local historian, Greg Hermon, and learned there was one exception, the 9th Regiment Kansas Volunteer Cavalry, Company F. Formation was started on October 19th of 1861 as the "Home Guard" unit to patrol the border between Kansas and Missouri against the "Border Ruffians and Bushwacker" raids of William Clarke Quantrill and other pro-Confederate Partisan rangers operating out of western and southern Missouri. They were designated as Company F on March 27, 1862 and served for the duration of the war.
We may elect to portray other Kansas regiments to participate in reenactment battles that did not include the 9th, but for the reasons listed here, 9 F will be our core impression.
One year after the war was over, The 9th Kansas Cavalry was reformed along with the 10th which became the famous African American cavalry known as the "Buffalo Soldiers" which fought with great distinction during the Indian Wars.

[GAR]

Re: Three Federal képi patch questions.

Thank you, Curt. One of the officers in the 15th Kansas photo has a double breasted shell jacket, although I believe he is a junior officer, and another appears to have braids on top of his kepi although it's not easy to see because early photography shows yellow as black. I asked that question here about braids a while back due to many images in EOC and other sources showing them, but I decided against it as I wasn't sure they made their way this far west. Apparently, they did. Yellow photographing as black may also explain why yellow breast collars aren't as well known, but most period paintings do show them.