Drilling for answers

[Paul L Muller]

While at a mainstream event this last weekend, we [our group] fell in with a larger CSA cav. unit for some mounted drill. We were the last set and there were only 4 of us so we were the last four . While marching in four abreast, the guy on my left [me being #3, he #4] was ahead of us by a horse length, and I asked him to fall back in line with the three of us and he said that we were to move up to the proper interval. I said we should all be together and guide off our corperal[sic] . It got a bit heated ! Yes, we were to far back, but we were not given orders to move up by our set leader. What is the proper solution to this situation? I am going to be asked to lead cav. drills for my group, but just reading a manual does not always answer questions like this. Also, while doing a left or right wheel...does'nt the pivot rider hold his basic position as the line moves in the ordered direction? The leader had the whole line move and wheel at the same time. There is a need for a good instructional video for mounted drill. Whatcha think? plm

[Mark Choate]

Re: Drilling for answers

Hi Paul,

While your pard may have had good intentions, he was wrong and you were right. Also, the set leader was wrong, too.

First, the Cpl (or set leader) needed to get his head out of his rear and set the interval which, in a column of fours, is eight feet (nose to tail). Since he did not do that, then it is your responsibility to stay in line with the set leader. The responsibility is his on this and the rest of the set is not to get out of position just because he is wrong. Should the unit commander have called one of several demanding manuevers, you would have all been screwed. Remember, do what your leader asks and let him take the chewing for it if it is wrong. It is his job to interpret and yours to execute.

Now, as to the wheel. You are again correct. The wheel pivot holds and the outside rider is the only one who retains the original gate (ie. walk, trot, canter, etc.). Each trooper from his position back to the pivot, is moving at a graduated decrease of the gate down to a stop which is held by said pivot. The purpose of this is to keep a straight line. What the field commander at your event was actually describing was a left or right turn while in a company or platoon front. In the case of said turn, the pivot man will move (it is commonly called "float") and at the same moment, the outside trooper picks up his gate by one level from what he was in. Example: While moving in a company front at a walk, the command is "Right", and the order of execution is "Turn". The extreme right end of the line will "float" in a slight arc to the right while the extreme left end picks up the gate to a trot. As with the wheel, each man in between the two points is in a graduated decrease of the trot in order to keep the dress straight.

And YES, more drill is needed and this is why we stress it constantly.

Hope this helps.
Mark

[Tom Craig]

Re: Drilling for answers

Greetings,

Perhaps I am a bit thick, but I am a little unclear on the original situation. You were in a set of fours, and the man on your left was ahead, and the other three of you were behind? You mention a Cpl, was he your #1 in your rank? Then, I suppose you were probably using Cooke's, but were you right in front (meaning the column departed from the right of the line) or were you left in front (meaning that the column started from the left of the line)?

I ask these questions, because, if I think I understand what was happening, I would actually side with the guy who told you to move up. In Poinsett's at least (what I am most familiar with, and which is quite similar to Cooke's) the interval is assumed, and there is no instruction to call out an interval. Meaning that it is on the trooper to keep the ordinary interval. More than that however, if you were moving "right in front" then the guide for each set of fours is actually on the left of each rank. It is confusing, and it actually runs counter to what most folks understand in the manual, but it is in Pointsett's in black and white.

Sooooo, could you shed a little more light on the situation, because maybe I've got things all wrong. I might have to also respectfully disagree with Mark on the wheel, but I have to look that up first, LOL. This is fun...we never have drill discussion here in the cavalry forum!
Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Mark Choate]

Re: Drilling for answers

Tom,

Yes, it is rare to discuss drill here on the forum, but kinda fun, too!

When Paul said he "being # 3 and the # 4 was on my left" I believe he meant the #4 was on his right. That is the way that I took it anyway. The critical piece is that the set leader (cpl) must set the position and the other three have no say other than to follow him. Otherwise, chaos rules.

As to the wheel discussion, I look forward to your findings as both Cookes and Poinsetts have virtually the same definition as Cookes state that the pivot man is to turn horse on his forefeet (stationery) and Poinsett's says that Pivot is "a fixed pivot" and the outside trooper proceeds at the original gait.

Anyway, looking forward to it.

thanks,
Mark

[kaelin]

Re: Drilling for answers

For those of you who have forgotten your books at home...

http://books.google.com/books?id=oqAVAAAAYAAJ&printsec=titlepage#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=kaAVAAAAYAAJ&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.2ncmi.org/cookescavalrytactics.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=uyKAg1N4cdYC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jN4aa4aqJ7AC&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q2sDAAAAYAAJ&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Mark, are you having another "change your underwear" moments like you had at the COI when the battalion successfully wheeled? Thought so...

[Mark Choate]

Re: Drilling for answers

Kaelin,

I almost spit up on myself with laughter at your comment. :tounge_sm

I had forgotten about that one. But you gotta admit that wheeling two companies of nearly 80 mounted men in Btn drill and having them all hit dead on spot is right up there with vanilla ice cream, Cohiba cigars and .......well, you know, ha.

Thanks for the great memory!!

Mark

[Mike_Schramm]

Re: Drilling for answers

Tom,

Yes, it is rare to discuss drill here on the forum, but kinda fun, too!

When Paul said he "being # 3 and the # 4 was on my left" I believe he meant the #4 was on his right. That is the way that I took it anyway.

Mark,

Per #174 in the school of the trooper (Poinsett) or # 197 (Cooke), you count fours from right to left, so the #4 is to HIS left.

Are you thinking as the commander facing the troops?

[Mark Choate]

Re: Drilling for answers

Yes, Mike, you make an excellent point and thanks for bringing that up!

I am looking at it from the Cmdr vantage point which would invert things from the trooper stand point and I apologize for that. However, the thing that I want us to not lose sight of in the "left/right" discussion is Paul's reference to the #4 man taking it upon himself to move forward or backward to establish the interval. The set leader must do that and if not he should be corrected.

Thanks,
Mark

[Mike_Schramm]

Re: Drilling for answers

Mark,

Absolutely no argument from me on that point.

YHS,

Member of the former FM 22-5, now Poinsett junkie mess