When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

[GAR]

Friends don't let friends dress farb.

I've got a pard that wants to line his cape in yellow. I've been under the impression that this was a post CW / IW look, but then again, I've also seen a few CW lithographs showing whole companies wearing them.

I'd like to show him a source that states when they first appeared but I've not been able to come up with one. Anyone?

Thanks in advance.

Gary Bradford

[Mark Choate]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

While there are examples of rare personalized exceptions, the earliest regulation of yellow-lined US Greatcoat capes that I can find is the M-1872 model. The same color of yellow was used until 1887 when the specified color of yellow was changed to a darker shade.

The justification for your friend needs to lie in the fundamental premise of portraying the typical not the rare exception.

thx,
Mark

[GAR]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Thanks, Mark.
I'm trying to track down those lithographs to see when they were made. I know Kurz & Allison was popular with their "historic" prints, which were inaccurate "fancies" that were made beginning in the 1890's. I suspect that might also be the case with the ones I remember seeing.
I've used your "Let history dictate our impressions.......not the other way around!" as a mantra with my group. It would be much easier if I had 30 authentic Union cavalrymen to work with, but until then, I'm trying to introduce more authenticity where it hasn't previously been a focal point. It's been uphill, but I'm starting to gain a little ground.

Gary

[brown]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

I am not familiar with any yellow lined capes (not a huge sample, but not a bad sample size). I have seen red lined, but neither of those were artillery.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Hallo!

During the late 1870's, it had become something of a fad with soliders improvising their own modifications or alterations to the issue CW greatcoat. The most common was the addition of branch coded flannel linings to the underside of the capes.

That had come to the attention of General of the Army William Sherman in 1877, and Sherman granted permission with the caution that"'when the present stock of overcoats is exhausted, the lining of the overcoat [cape] should conform to the trimming of the uniform."

His ruling appears to have gone nowhere.

Officers on the 1879 Equipment Board thought that the practice was somewhat nearly universal as a personal thing as a "prevailing custom" at mens' own expense and for the added warmth. In their report recommended that it be legitimized (seemingly unaware that Sherman had already previously done so).

While yellow and red were great, things were a bit more complicated for infantry who had been lining their capes with dark blue for contrast.
Especially with dark blue branch colors for thinns like chevrons and trouser stripes, as well as the dark blue M1876 coat which started coming out in numbers after 1878. So, the initial batch of M1876 overcoats ended up being made without linings and priced $1.85 less.

The Quartermaster Department finally got the ball rolling in 1881, only to get crippled by a delay in appropriations for that year- mostly over the yellow dye bleeding and staining the blue of the coat. Stained coats were returned the depots at Philadelphia or St. Louis where they ahd discovered a chemical process for lifting the yellow stains.

Large batches of unlined M1876 coats were also generating complaints as they had been shipped to frontier posts before the authorization of lined capes. So, they either obtained yellow flannel at $1.08 a yard to add themselves, or post quartermasters could send them back to Philadelphia after July 1883 when the new appropriation would be available to cover the conversion costs. In early 1883, the Army amended regulations to delete any reference to the old style foot greatcoats and making the mounted version the only officially sanctioned coat.

Curt

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Hallo!

Might as well go backwards a bit and add some trivia...

When the Marcy Board ("Uniform Board of 1872") convened, they ende dup recommending that the 1861 pattern mounted services greatcoat be standardized for both cavalry and infantry. I tis believed they believed that stocks of Civil War surplus were still large enough to get the job done. But, actually, supplies of mounted pattern greatcoats were to low to meet the growign needs of a frontier army.

Plus, they seemed only partially aware that the winters "out west' or on the northern plains made the relatively thin greatcoats inadequate. An effort had been made in 1871 to take exisitng mounted pattern greatcoats and beef them up by adding surplus blanket linings to the body. This proved ineffective on the Plains, due to teh cape and teh skirts not being lined with blanket material.

So, due to limited funds, the Quartermaster Department would not let the Clothing Buereau make the needed number of mounted pattern coats. But, there were thousands of the 1851 pattern infantry greatcoats in storage. The expedient was to have new longer capes made, and just add those to the existing stock of foot (infantry) pattern coats by attaching them under the short infantry capes.

The "compromise' or expedient was a new design that kinda/sort a looked like the 1861 pattern overcoat, but was made of a heavier more closely woven sky-blue kersey with a body lining of dark blue twilled flannel. And being made by the government clothing depots, they were beter made than many of the contract made Civil War ones not only in material quality, construction quality, but also in the not so varied shades of "sky-blue" dyed cloth (often an issue of too dark to pass inspection trouser kersey being used).

Sorry to talk about Post War stuff, but IMHO it was relevent to the question.

Curt

[GAR]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Curt-
Can you be more specific?
Seriously, thank you. This is just what I needed to put the kibosh on the yellow.

Gary

[Tom Craig]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Yooooo! Sorry, just had to give that nod to John Wayne on that one.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[lukegilly13]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

I think something important to point out (although I agree with the above posts) is that if your friend is portraying a confederate soldier instead of a federal soldier the analysis of overcoats might be quite different. For instance, some confederate overcoats did have lined capes (citing: Private Smith overcoat lined in red). Now, I don't think they lined the overcoats based on branch of service trim, however, a yellowish lining inside of a confederate overcoat might not be so far fetched. Not sure if an original with yellow lining exists, but lined civilian overcoats were around in the 60's as well as lined capes that could be worn with any coat.

Note: I'm not trying to justify lining the cape of a federal overcoat. But if the impression is confederate, then it is VERY possible that an overcoat was private purchase and made on a civilian pattern or a civilian overcoat pressed into service.

[brown]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Archie Smith's overcoat at the AHC does not have a cape with it, even though there are buttons provided to attach a removable cape. The red lined cape is a representative part of the pattern.

I truth, I wonder if Archie ever got the cape his mother wanted him to have. When his mother(Ann) made his overcoat she sent several letters asking her older son (Willie) to send his overcoat cape home since he wasn't wearing it (he was posted in or near Savannah for most of the war). She after that she was using the same pattern so it would fit and that she saw no reason to make another. She never recognized Willie eventually sending the cape. Additionally, I doubt the fabrics would I've matched as Willie's coat was made early on, by shortly before she made Archie's coat, she was complaining that the government had bought all fabric except "ugly brown jean" which she hated to use to dress her soldier sons.

[lukegilly13]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Good point! I didnt realize that the cape was not with the original. Perhaps we have hit on something. It seems that it was common to line removable capes. See this one for example:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/187839

Also, the officer's cape on Chris Daley's page has a semi lining (at least in the shoulders).
Again, no evidence to support lining a federal overcoat with branch of service color.

[brown]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Luke, I think you are correct on several of those points. The big one for thousand thread is that branch of service linings during the ACW on Fed issue greatcoats seems to be uncommon at best. Anyone seen an issue greatcoat with cape lining added as an alteration?

[David Fox]

Re: When were Federal greatcoat capes first lined in yellow?

Sartorially, perhaps the most atypical man in Confederate service (aside from the bespecticaled Texas dude in leopard skin) was Jeb Stuart. His cavalry cape was lined in red(!)