Guidon flag pole top

[GAR]

Gents,

I wanted to purchase an army spear flag pole top for our guidon. I see I have a color choice of brass or silver. Is either more correct?

Thanks in advance,

Gary

[Bmanz1085]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

"On June 25, 1876, Custer had approached this village of thousands of Indians with about 700 men organized into 12 companies. Each company had a swallowtail flag, or guidon, carried by a corporal. These flags served as formation markers and rallying points. They were articles of pride, and during battles, men fought and died to ensure the enemy did not capture their guidons.

Hand-stitched by New York City seamstresses during the Civil War, these 33-inch-by-27-inch silk flags featured a field of 13 red and white alternating stripes and a blue canton with 35 stenciled gilt stars, forming a circle within a circle, plus four more stars, one in each corner of the canton. At the top of the nine-foot, straight-grained ash lance, a brass spear point finial secured the guidon. None of the guidons had markings to distinguish the companies that possessed them."

This was excerpted from True West Magazine, article by Bill Markey May 13,2013.


The attached photo is from the civil war era and from my limited research was used through the war and a variant is used to on US Army Regimental Flags and Guidons. I would venture to say brass would have been the predominate material, as these would have been mass produced and brass the material of choice, since silver was a valuable commodity at that time.

[JimKindred]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

True West magazine is not an acceptable reference by itself and 1876 is a wee bit past the acceptable time period on this forum.

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Most of the spears I have seen are made of brass. Some are brass with the remains of a silver wash to them. Much as the link below mentions from the Military & Historical Image Bank.

http://www.historicalimagebank.com/gallery/main.php/v/album02/album22/album70/CWf5ds_Federal_flag_pole_spear_point_with_cross_bar_originally_silvered_psd.jpg.html

In regards to which is more common I would say brass from what I have seen on the examples at the Iowa Historical Society collection. If you are doing a generic impression that would work. If you are doing something more specific I would recommend some research on the unit or the state that would have issued the flag.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Gary,

I would say that Mr. Zenti's advice is sound that you would want to research it if you have a specific impression in mind. Personally, I really have no knowledge on this subject although the majority of originals that I have seen have been brass. I might ask that if any others have documented advice for Gary that you might step forward and share it.


thx,
Mark

[Jimmayo]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Have seen a couple of dug originals and the spear point as well as the bottom staff cup are brass.

[GAR]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Thanks for the replies.

As an interesting side note, I read in the archives here that some Kentucky companies even used tin (as found in a very informative thread - "Proper flag pole for National colors and guidon"). Although quite a bit of silver was being mined in Colorado Territory at the time, which is not too far from here, the silver tops made today are actually chrome. Brass was my first choice too, so that settles it.

Thanks again,

Gary

[GAR]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Almost related, I found this guidon "blank" that was issued at the beginning of the war. Receiving officers were to fill in their own regiment number and company letter.

http://www.flagcollection.com/itemsummary.php?CollectionItem_ID=2575

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Gettysburg Flag Co. has pretty good reproduction finials and ferrules. Dupage Flag Co. has correct ones as well.

[Andrew German]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Greetings:
If you need a correct spear with correct brass finial and ferrule, DuPage Military Flag Co. appears to be the most accurate source. They also make the correct-size silk guidons (most "repros" are too big and nylon).

Andrew German

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Guidon flag pole top

Gents-

As a further point of interest on flag hardware. I was speaking to the Iowa Historical Society's Battle Flag curator and she was explaining to me several of the points/cups on the Iowa Civil War flags actually are believed to date back to the War of 1812 period. As in the US Government when issuing flags reused the brass flag hardware.

So much for recycling as a "new" concept.