Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

[Charles Heath]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

I don't know of anyone who can say they have had the historically documented, asset and burden, of supply wagons at an event.

Jay,

It happens, but not often enough. For example, at least two events in 2006 used wagons in this manner.

[Old Reb]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

Wagons for BGR are not cosmetic, but vital to the logistics of the troop movements through a very remote, and very rugged country side. Men will depend on the wagons and thus be aiding the movement of the wagons where needed. The genesis of BGR, while taking shape over a period of time, had its moment of vision while the Texas Ground Hornets drove back from Rich Mountain and we discussed what we wanted in an event. We wanted real as much as possible. We wanted an event that replicated the shared misery of a soldier’s life. We wanted to stage an event that we would drive across country to attend. That many are coming from not only Europe, but the far edges of America speaks highly that others too share the vision. I urge those still on the fence about attending to get off that fence and get registered. None of us can promise that things will go smoothly, but we aren’t hyping, we are simply attempting to put the foundation under our dreams. See you all in Louisiana next March.

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

Tom is dead-on with this post. Not much more I can add.

I thought a little "eye candy" might be nice so here is an image I found from Harper's Weekly of teamsters with wagons and a modern image of one of the rigs which will be at Banks' Grand Retreat.

Of note in the original image- under extreme magnification, a fellow who bears a striking resemblance to one Charles Heath can be seen lifting a jar labled "pickled peaches" from one of the wagons.

Regards,

[Alamo Guard]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

I quote from the book "The story of the Maine 15th" by Henry A. Shorey. Press of the Bridgton News cira 1890. He is talking about after the battle of Mansfield and being on the picket line "The men lay guard in their postions on the battle-line until near midnight, amusing themselves by listening to the conversation on the rebel side of the line, and noting their movements as they gathered up and hauled to the rear the captured spoils and united in jubilant shouts as they discovered the generous supplies of forage, ammunition, provisions etc., which had fallen into their hands".
Another source the use of Federal material.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

Of note in the original image- under extreme magnification, a fellow who bears a striking resemblance to one Charles Heath can be seen lifting a jar labled "pickled peaches" from one of the wagons.

Homemade or from Jaemor's? :p

If I'm in that image, then I'd would more than likely be one of the fellows in the foreground sleeping next to that log (looky, a headlog) and some poltroon from the Bad Reenacting Theatre Company will be along directly to kick that log, wake me up, and then ask "what did you do before the war?'

Wagons add a lot to an event, and far more than eye candy. Mike Graff's family wagon added a heck of a lot to our 2003 Antietam NPS LH in terms of moving the bare essentials of battalion HQs, as the participants moved from one end of the battlefield to the other. Giving the troops yet another fatigue detail of striking, loading, unloading, and erecting tentage and baggage was much better than waiting for the Kabuki to accomplish this after the troops departed, etc. He also played a part in the Morgan's Raid event of that year, and that wagon along with two mounted pieces were a treat in the field. A pair of beautiful sorrell mules, similar to the ones in the color image you posted, evidently hadn't had enough wet collar time and were used up quickly the first day.

Other events have had other equine related transportation, and static displays were equines were prohibited (still a lot of that going on back east), but we had two good examples of uses within our own group this year. At Winter 1864, Scott Schotz and Dennis Shank had arranged for a neighbor to bring over a team and a wagon, and he delivered parcels from home (mostly blankets), several boxes of sutler goods, and some other odds and ends. Some of the lads were surprised to see such a conveyance in the winter hut area. On his way out, the teamster hauled the remains of Pvt. Silk, who had been exhumed earlier that day. That was a nice effect.

In September of this year, Doug Oakes arranged for one of his neighbors to bring a wagon for the federal cavalry to deal with during the trek from the other end of the manuver box for that event. When an event site is measured in square miles instead of acres, period transportation becomes more and more useful. One of the lads riding in the wagon with some gear mentioned how he finally understood why the wounded men in the ambulances were screaming at every bump in the road. Would that four or five more wagons could have been arranged for that effort. Perhaps it will happen in another year on another site.

Both Raymond #1 and RR #2 made good use of wagons, too. As we enjoy more and more of this, perhaps there will be enough interest to create period correct harness, which is sorely lacking in most instances. That is a nice detail in the form of a future goal, as we gain a little bit at a time year by year. The boys who say "we never see" need to get to events like Banks' Grand Retreat so they "can see."

Teamster Phil brought me an Acme by Sears & Roebuck wagon in good shape from Kentucky a few years ago. This year, it made its first appearance at an event as part of the 2nd Bull Run NPS LH that Nic Ellis put together. Due to the prohibition on equines, it was a static display only. Don't tell Phil that wagon has been underway with \../ power a couple of times, else he'll move in with us. ;)

Let me see if I can figure out how to use this PayPal gizmo sometime this afternoon and register for this adventure as part of Captain Murray's gaggle of Easterners. These events don't come along very often, and I may be dead and gone before the next walk in the "howling wilderness" appears.

[MO-Pard]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

I suppose I should qualify my comment of not knowing anyone who has seen wagons at an event as part of a logistical "supply train." At the time of the post that was pretty much true, but would probably have been better said, "No one I know who has been at an event with a logistical supply train for the duration of a campaigner event, has mentioned such full utilization." Many events using them before were in the far east, and most all are from years back. Yes, we have used them for living histories such as Wilson's Creek and so forth. However, as Charles pointed out, and most seem to agree, it is a very underrepresented aspect because they are somewhat expensive and a hassle to deal with, (as they were then as well. Some things don't change!)

Anyway, whether they have been used or not prior in any capacity, wasn't the spirit of the post. It was in fact the underrepresentation today, the headaches they provide supporting/loading/protecting/close enough to keep troops supplied/abandonment of tactical gains in relation to/the threat of their capture/etc. The possibilities and aspects are too numerous to list and comprehend. This is going to provide a killer aspect to an already great and well-planned event. The incorporation of the wagons will be both a friend and a strength, and in a matter of seconds can quickly be a liability and problem child. Benevolence and privation.

Above all, this is a great chance to attend the only scheduled immersion campaigner event available for at least the next year-and-a-half, probably longer, at least on this level. (Although I hope not.) I have spoke to many who are excited about things like the remote woodland terrain, the lack of seeing cars/modern buildings, the multi-day format, unknown daily orders, personal challenges of mind and body, the great civilian/refugee incorporation, registered participants from hundreds and thousands of miles away, and then you throw in the additional positive and negative possibilities of logistical supply wagons. With all these "period aspects" and the period moments and experiences possible, I wonder how much more one needs or demands to register/attend? This would seem to put it over the top for them as many have said and we always look for additional experiences and uniques offerings from an event in deciding which to attend. If it is travel, at least the multi-day format makes it worth the trip, since it isn't a 'common event' arriving on a friday evening and leaving sunday morning. I understand campaigner events aren't for everyone, but the fact there are people are coming out of the woodwork from England, France, California, Washington, Michighan, back east, etc. makes a loud statement. (Side note.....It would be interesting to see a listing of all the states and countries, of already registered campaigners....just states and countries, not names.)

But anyway, I digress. The long and short of it for me, and several I have spoke with, is the incorporation of wagon supply trains and the unknowns they will add to the event. Though I planned to go prior, the incorporation of the wagons, was what sealed me sending in my registration last week.

BTW- Great post Doug/Charles The historical references to wagons from the campaign are a very welcome and appreciated addition. Hope folks keep 'em coming.

Best Regards

[Charles Heath]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

Above all, this is a great chance to attend the only scheduled immersion campaigner event available for at least the next year-and-a-half, probably longer, at least on this level.

Jay,

You know this. I know this, but 99.9% of the people who consider themselves to be campaigners have never been to a campaign event. They need to go walk the walk and not just talk the talk and wear the clothes like dandies, for clothes do not make a campaigner. You are right, half a decade or more may pass before another such adventure is upon us. In that light, I registered this morning using Fred's online system, and it was effortless -- at least on this end.

Of course, I consider it a heritage violation to see PayPal still does not have CSD (Confederate States Dollars) as a monetary option. I guess they succumbed to reality or something like that. :p

Now, let me see if I can skeer up some other pasty faced Easterners who can be convinced the edge of the known world is not the Big Scary Mountains.

[missourirelics]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

As commissary for BGR, we will be armed and will not let any shirkers in the wagons...Col. Frank's dress trunk must be protected at all cost!

Paul Arnold
BGR Commissary

[Michael Comer]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

You can let me in the wagon - it's ok really. I have been detached to act as special guard of the dear colonel's trunk to make sure none of the miscreants attached to the commissary go rifling through any of its contents.

[Jack Enright]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

Question for Gallo:

can you tell me what sort of horses and donkeys your mules have been bred from, and what sort of size / weight they come out at?

Also, do you know of any source which describes a typical army mule in the war?

I'm interested because a woman living in Wales is breeding mules from an American donkey crossed with a Suffolk Punch heavy draft horse, for use in logging on steep hillsides. I'd be interested to know how they compare.

Many thanks, and best regards,

Jack Enright, Co. E, 18th Missouri Vol Infantry (England)

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Wagons at Banks' Grand Retreat

Jack,

I know that one set is draft mules (crossed with a draft horse rather than a stock horse) and the other is just a standard set of working mules. I will dig further and PM you.

Kind regards,