Outpost III - AAR Thread

[Federal Bummer]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Eveyone's thinking it, so I'll post it

"Beef! It's whats for dinner."

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Hey Mark, you notice how those sausages were laying right out in the open for ya? Makes you wonder what may have happened to them prior to you making them a tasty breakfast.

[DougCooper]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Thank you's -

I have since determined that it was someone in the office that gave me the worst flu of my life this week, so my comrades in Co A are off the hook ;)

WIG - top to bottom, another Gold Star. I cannot think of a single thing I would do differently. You under-promise but over-deliver. Its our job to get more folks to these events and I hope the results of this one help. I hope you guys got enough support on the set up of this one so that you are not in Dutch with the homefront.

Co A - for staying in first person the entire weekend...Bully. Capt Dave "Cool" Gerow, Lt Brad "20 Rod Run" Argue, Orderly Jason "Where's Abe?" Reinholz and 3rd Sgt Rod "Klein(small)" Miller were superb leaders. When Jason and two comrades were captured on the picket line early Sunday AM, nobody had to fake the concern and anger on our part - and we were all the more motivated the rest of the day. But perhaps the most unusual "for this hobby" was the great amount of responsibility put on to the Corporals, and to a man they were absolutely outstanding. That was Capt Dave's plan, as it was in the real deal. That, more than anything else about this excellent event, will stay with me. Well done!!!

From what I saw, Co B and C had much the same experience. Together we formed an honest to goodness hard fighting battalion made of whole cloth and put together in a few hours.

Battalion Staff - you know things are going good when the Battalion Commander runs real battalion drill training right off the bat and the schedule becomes tight immediately. Throughout the weekend, the staff performed that most important of traits - LBWA, "Leadership by Walking Around." You don't always see that because it is not something we teach in the hobby. Without being intrusive, the staff were constantly checking on the men, at all hours. Tactics, logistics, communications, persperation, determination - all top shelf. Sorch and Skip appear to be born to this :) Ox was OX, the quintessential Sgt Major and Andrew stepped up big time as Adj. Don Smith's topo engineer impression was superb...and ought to be mandatory for any event of this type. Our Buglers were simply the reason we did so well in the field - we always knew what everyone else was doing and we did not get bogged down responding to calls that were not our company.

The cavalry - thanks again you guys for showing how it was done in the real deal. Nobody had to fake the looks on our faces or the cheers when the Critters came riding to the rescue. Nobody had to fake the worry about the Rangers and their all night slinking about or hard riding on our flanks.

The Rebs - thanks a million for making it real, making it very difficult and staying on message (the 20th Tennessee) the entire weekend. Well done indeed.

The civilians - for once (and unfortunately) I did not have any personal interaction here but it sounded like it went well, as usual. Hearing the occasional women's voice or cackling chicken at night was strange in the context of our experience, but we were too busy to think much about it. In the real deal the civilians would likely not have been located so close to the action, but the lay of the land dictated otherwise here, a good compromise.

Brian Hicks - besides everything you did for the event, taking time to explain to our boys at the end the historical and preservation context of the area was special.

Hayley - the lady at the hotel in Nashville that let me take a shower in a spare room for no charge before heading to the airport. My thanks on behalf of the passengers in Delta flight 404.

[Horace]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

This is in response to Mr. Tipton, and anyone else who is concerned. I contacted the editor of Civil War Historian prior to the event and am finishing an article for them now, which will hopefully give further exposure to this excellent event. Photos and maps should be included. Thanks.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

In every Modern-Day Military AAR, Commanders require “Three Ups and Three Downs” We would be denying ourselves if we did not “push the button” in "asking ourselves" what we could do better and where do we go from here?

I think the WIG Staff has done a great job in securing a future for our hobby. It has done a very good job in developing possible leaders in our BN. Allowing them to make mistakes, be adjusted, and move forward.

What I took away from this event, was three things:

1.This type of event will I only take time away from my family, my farm and my work to attend.

2.The Wig Staff is committed to developing our hobby.

3.Event Leaders must stay focused on their men, reminding themselves always if we are to portray “First-Person” …Taking care of your soldiers comes first. You must prepare yourself as a leader before you can lead.

How do we improve…. man, that is a hard one. But a question we must ask ourselves.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

We would be denying ourselves if we did not “push the button” in "asking ourselves" what we could do better and where do we go from here?

I had a good time and do not intend this as criticism, but because the subtopic is, "What could have been done better?", I'll offer this in a positive, look-ahead spirit:

1. Tactics - This event, like most "campaigner" events, was one small battalion vs. another small battalion, each with some mounted cavalry on each side. This is not a brigade, and should not be represented as a brigade (I'm not suggesting that this was done explicitly). Future events such as Outpost 3 should concentrate on the "functional battalion" following period tactics for the size of the unit portrayed, instead of breaking up each battalion into company- and even platoon-sized maneuver elements. Simply put, Civil War battalions did not typically fight that way. To repeat what I've said in the past, this is probably my biggest problem with tactical-style events.

2. First-person - This is always a huge challenge at any event, particularly one where guys are involved in activities that are pretty physical; often, the more physical the event the less first-person one observes. Outpost 3 was not really all that physical--it had fairly limited marching, and the terrain was pretty flat. Therefore, there was more first-person than I expected there would be. However, more can be done to encourage and forster first-person, including good examples from the leadership cadre (I'm not saying I saw poor examples; merely saying that the more the leaders do it, the more the men will). As a basic background for this event, an historical setting should have been more widely publicized to provide greater opportunity for "more and better" first-person (as I experienced it, our company designation changed three times in the final two weeks, and only a few days before departing for the event I learned that the scenario was something completely different from what I was originally told it was to be; viz., not "the Nolensville Pike on the way to Stones River" but actually some unspecified (that I knew of) date and place sometime in October 1862 in northern Tennessee). This recommendation for more efforts to improve the first-person experience and historical setting should not come as a surprise to anyone who knows me--I'm a strong proponent that anything done in the field in reenacting should have a strong tie to the history its representing.

3. Skill Development - Everyone, from top to bottom and on both sides (that I could see), came to Outpost 3 with their game face on and with a positive attitude; that alone speaks volumes and is probably one of the main reasons the event was so successful and had a lot of happy customers. That I saw, the officer and non-comm impressionists all worked very hard. That said, I observed that "technical knowledge" in several areas was lacking (before anyone gets their undies in a wad, I wrote, "several areas", not "all" or "most" areas). Those who hold rank need to know the job even better prior to the event. For example, I often overheard folks with rank at Outpost 3 refer to picket duty as "we're doing guard mount this evening" (folks: "guard mount" is the ceremony at which the Guard detail is formed and inspected, it is NOT the act of doing guard or picket duty). There were some lapses during battalion drill; heck, most of the companies on the visiting team were lacking some or even all of their company left and right guides at battalion drill. Certainly many folks lacked knowledge of bugle calls; on the blue team RJ and Randy were bugling their brains out very ably and then some, but it struck me that many folks didn't know what those calls meant and, as is often unfortunately the case, often ignored the calls. It appeared to me that drill manuals were mixed and matched to an extent (we portrayed a summer-of-1862 regiment and used manuevers that are only in the Hardee's/US Rifle-Light Infantry Tactics manual, when the regiment portrayed probably used Casey's manual instead); this is often the case at many "campaigner" events. Etc. etc. etc. To summarize, there's a lot of knoweldge out there, and most folks are certainly willing enough, but as a whole we need to improve our skills through study and application; the "campaigner" end of the hobby is certainly not "there" yet. We should all be happy with the experiences at Outpost 3, but we should not be content.

Let me also offer that the event committee did a good job with this one. Rations were availabile in sufficient quality and quantity, facilties and logistics were adequate, the site was good and easy to find with the directions provided, and other stuff. These days, with the effort required to plan and run even smaller "campaigner" events that are so ambitious, the mere fact that the event happened successfully probably does not get quite the credit it deserves. I have a vague idea of the effort that goes into staging an event like Outpost 3, and we all owe folks like Art Milbert, Justin Runyon, Matt Woodburn, Brian Hicks, and others (sorry for not knowing or probably listing the full event committee) a round of thanks and applause for making this happen for all to enjoy and learn from.

Again, this post is offered in the spirit of, "Where do we go from here?"

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Kevin,

Thanks for taking this thread to a new level. You made some darn fine points. I agree with you 100% on the tactics. All in the "Good of the Order".

[paulcalloway]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Regarding building on the event:
I'd like to see more of these events start up Thursday night or Friday morning so instead of 36 hours immersion, we end up closer to 48 hours - and then some sort of system for working those folks in more smoothly who cant get there until Friday night/Saturday morning.

Regarding the late arrivals:
I don't think having the entire Federal battalion wait in the parking lot until midnight was the best solution. If we're going to get up at 3AM to 4AM on Saturday morning, we need sleep Friday night. If we can set up a signal fire close to parking with 6-8 men who are familiar with the event site to conduct late arrivals to their respective companies, I think thats a much more workable solution than having the entire battalion wait as long as they possibly can and then march off leaving no one behind to handle late arrivals.

Aside from that -I really enjoyed it. Ranks right up there with Outpost 99 and the Pickett's Mill efforts as far as I'm concerned.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Yeah... I know... it's kind of off topic from the AAR, but allow me tie it in.

At Chickamauga we asked the men of the WIG to donate some funds so that the Bn could give Art Milbert a Wedding Gift. On Sunday, at the end of Outpost III, we presented Art with a well made, Officers Sword Belt which was superbly created by Neil Rose.

Well... today (one week after Outpost III) Art Milbert, the Commander of the Western Independent Grays, was Married. Now remember... Art, as the WIG Commander, was instrumental in the planning and successful execution of the Chickamauga LH just 6 weeks ago, then Outpost III last week, and of course, his wedding today. Needless to say, he's been rather busy these past few months.

Below is a picture of Art, and a few of us WIG members, as we appeared at his wedding earlier today:


(For those whom can't place the clean faces, and modern dress with the usual event appearances) From Left to Right:

Patrick Craddock, Tripp Corbin, Herb Coats, Art Milbert, Brian Hicks, Matt Woodburn, Justin Runyon.

[PvtShot]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

As a basic background for this event, an historical setting should have been more widely publicized to provide greater opportunity for "more and better" first-person

Fellas,

As fas as the Feds. go, I was under the impression that we were representing the 89th's movements after the Battle of Stones River, which placed us in or around January-June '63. Although the 89th stayed local to Murfreesboro and fortified the city for well over five months, I looked at the event as though we were a scouting patrol; foraging the area, and trying to ascertain the rebel force's strength and position. It was definately a GREAT TIME!!!

Maybe it was done to give the average Pvt. the feeling of cluelessness , but I agree with Kevin that a specific scenario would help foster more 1st person interaction.

THANKS again to the ladies in the cabin and the jonnie 1st Sgt (who I think was Matt Woodburn, from the picture I see above) that I brought back through the lines during the Saturday cease fire... I still have goosebumps from your 1st person skills, and was lucky to be a part of it! Oscars all around!!!

I'll have a drink tonight in honour of the event committee!!! ... ok maybe two:D

Thanks again,
Eliot Toscano
The Buckras

SCAR/SRR

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

What a great picture...good luck Art, and SGM Hicks, you look the youngest of all !!!!!!

P.S. GO LSU!!!

/G\

[flattop32355]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Below is a picture of Art, and a few of us WIG members, as we appeared at his wedding earlier today:

Someone's got to say it: You boys clean up well.

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

As a basic background for this event, an historical setting should have been more widely publicized to provide greater opportunity for "more and better" first-person... I'm a strong proponent that anything done in the field in reenacting should have a strong tie to the history its representing.

Gentlemen,

I am fairly new to the type of event that is attended by the readership of this board. I came to this hobby as a scholar and historical interpreter first and have only begun to venture out from that role into events such as Outpost. I feel, though, that Mr. O'Beirne's comments are quite in line with my own opinions, particularly on the importance of understanding the historical background of these events.

I will be the first to admit that too often I find first person hokey -- whether it be at a reenactment, a historic site, or elsewhere. For some reason, I just can't seem to suspend my disbelief to that extent. Now that does not mean that I am not willing to participate in it if it will "make" the event for those around me. My goal in this hobby is to further my understanding of what motivated the Civil War soldier. For me, each event is a research opportunity, to test my theories of how the 1860s world worked against a new set of men and circumstances. I don't know that this is much different -- if at all -- from the goal of those who strive for dynamite first person interaction. Certainly many of the tools are the same for both.

Full disclosure: did I stay in first person throughout Outpost? No. The Saturn plant, highway, and prevalence of modern talk surrounding the Confederate position made that fairly impossible. Now, did I learn a few things through the course of the event and have some "a-ha" moments along the way? Absolutely. But I learned what I did and I had those moments because myself and others had taken the time before the event to try to understand the soldier of the 20th TN.

I must, at least from the Confederate side of the event, disagree with the notion that the historical context was not available to those who wanted to understand it. (I cannot comment on the situation for Federals) For example, valuable information came from the work in the regimental histories by Mr. Coats, the census data from Mr. White, the uniform research done by Mr. Black, and the others who created some fascinating discussion threads on this board. To further that, some quick internet searches could pull up a basic history of the 20th TN, its notable Col. Smith, etc. Add to that a basic library on the Western Theater, Connelly's Army of the Heartland, Daniel's Soldiering in the AoT, etc. could have given us some great background, too. Going deeper, recent years have produced a number of solid works on the specifics of prewar Middle Tennessee society and culture as well. In my opinion, a well rounded 20th TN impression should have included some level of familiarity with more than a few of these resources.

But, from a number of "so...who are we supposed to be again?" conversations I had and others I overheard before the start of the event (and even a couple during) I have to question how many participants gave more than cursory glance to even the basic info available on this forum. I seem to recall (and greatly appreciate) Mr. Landrum speaking to his company on Friday night on the specific importance that this action would have had for Co. D's Williamson Co. boys fighting on their home turf. I ask in all honesty, were some of us hearing that for the first time? (And I do emphasize some. I know that a good many of you all worked very hard on all aspects of your impressions, etc. and it showed)

As I have seen many of the leaders here say time and again, the resources are available and surprisingly easy to come by. Whatever your goals in this hobby those sources are the key to personal growth and a better experience for all.

What could we as a community do better to explore these resources? Talk. That's what we've all come to the A-C for. I would like to see a suggested bibliography for each one of the events right alongside uniform guidelines. Is it more work for an already hardworking event staff? Yes, but not too much. If they've gone to the lengths that the organizers of Outpost et al. have done to create such an event, I assume they've become familiar with these resources anyway. All it takes is writing up the list. Accompanying threads on this forum could provide the means for discussion of that bibliography, too. Fellows can share their research into the primary sources (as did happen for this and other events) and perhaps have some discussion of any applicable secondary sources that we are aware of, expanding on the work done by organizers. We will debate, we will disagree, but we will be better reenactors for it.

Leading the horse to water, though, and quenching his thirst are two different propositions. It will eventually fall on us, gentlemen, as individuals to study and improve.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Full disclosure: did I stay in first person throughout Outpost?No. The Saturn plant, highway, and prevalence of modern talk surrounding the Confederate position made that fairly impossible.

It sounds like Outpost was a great event, that pleased pretty much everyone. So...

Here's a serious question. Why not give up on first person as an expectation at campaign events?

I didn't attend Outpost because a military impression just doesn't interest me that much if I know it'll be a weekend of listening to modern talk, and I couldn't figure any predictable way to avoid that.

Instead of expecting first person, then going through an "I'm not doing it because they're not doing it" situation like Pat Lewis describes above, then writing AARs that the first person wasn't that good but who cares because it was a great event anyway, why not just abandon the idea, if first person doesn't matter or doesn't add anything for most participants?

That's been the unvarying pattern for the last six or seven years at least, and, more importantly, having the chance to talk about modern things seems to be what most campaigners want. So why even expect things that a large chunk of the participants don't want and won't do?

Either that, or split campaign events into two distinct kinds, no first person expected, and first person required--actually required.

Or, alternatively, figure out a way to give those who want to only hear and speak about period things that experience, and those who want to talk modern that experience, at the same event, and have it actually happen, and more important, have it be predictable, so you can put in the effort to study and not have it wasted.

Otherwise, it seems to be this endless cycle of good intentions abandoned during the event and better expectations next time, with some lucky participants reporting their company did fine, but no way to predict ahead of time how to be in that company to get that experience. Or at least, I've not found any predictable way.

Leading the horse to water, though, and quenching his thirst are two different propositions. It will eventually fall on us, gentlemen, as individuals to study and improve.

That's where we've been since at least 2000. I recall the detailed background information published before Hodge's March 2000, the great first person in the day, and not a single Confederate that I could find in character Saturday evening, except me.

If it hasn't happened yet, is it ever going to? Why not just accept things as they are?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[BrianHicks]

Re: Outpost III - AAR Thread

Regarding First person at WIG events.

We have never promoted any of our events as First person-deep immersion events. We do ask that folks come with a good attitude and willingness to live the Military culture non-stop for the full duration of the event (we consider this positive attitude more important than the material culture details... in other words, a Jacket made by less than accurate methods, worn by someone with a great attitude and willingness to participate, is more desired than the most authentic wearing individual who is less than willing to play well with others, comply to military duties at all hours of the day and night, and at least try to let go the modern talk for the week end).