Event Website

[trippcor]

The website is now up for this event and registration is open. Here is the link: http://www.westernindependentgrays.org/pearidge08/

[onemoreb]

Re: Event Website

Has anyone researched the possibility that the State Guard was not wearing civilian clothing at all? The Confederate Legislature has set aside $1,000,000 to equip Missouri troops. This was not only for Missouri Confederate troops but for ALL Missouri soldiers. The uniforms ( 8,000 suits of undyed jean)and accoutrements and artillery, etc., etc. arrived in Springfield just prior to the retreat. They were carried back to Arkansas and issued just prior to the battle. I hardly think that these would have been untouched by the non-Confederate MSG and kept solely for those enlisted in the Confederate service. There were only 2 regiments of Missouri Confederate troops at the battle(Far from full strength regiments to be sure) and a few artillery units. Even if the infantry were the full 2,000 men strong, it seems senseless to leave 6,000 suits sitting in wagons. Besides after the fight when the remnants of the Army of the West reached Van Buren, AR they were in rags. Ephrim Anderson states this quite clearly in his Memiors. Wouldn't it seem ridiculous that if there were an additional 6,000 sets of uniforms in the wagons that they wouldn't be in the sorry shape they were in?
A letter from a Missouri State Guard member in Guibor's Battery makes reference to the "bully gray hats with red trim" they had just recieved prior to the battle of Elk Horn Tavern. The evidence is there but as yet no one has been able to assist in this confirming or denying this theory.
I am still looking for the irrefutable piece of information to confirm this theory. A letter of a MSG member or an unpublished diary would confirm my suspicions. I have discussed this theory with a number of historians and they agree that it makes perfect sense.
Does anyone know of any information sources where this can be definitely confirmed or denied? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Event Website

Well, some Missourians were in uniform. Little's men were in the undyed jean uniforms that brought sheep bleatings from other troops because they still smelled of lanolin.

Besides after the fight when the remnants of the Army of the West reached Van Buren, AR they were in rags. Ephrim Anderson states this quite clearly in his Memiors. Wouldn't it seem ridiculous that if there were an additional 6,000 sets of uniforms in the wagons that they wouldn't be in the sorry shape they were in?

I'm not following you here too well. Please clarify to help me understand. If the men were in rags after the battle, and probably would not have been if they had new uniforms issued, then they must not have been issued uniforms before the battle so what would they be wearing? Civilian clothing? It seems that you are saying there were not 6,000 set of uniforms when earlier you made the assertion that thousands of sets had been made available prior to the battle.

Part of the reason, just speculation on my part, that we are doing an MSG impression with civilian gear is that there just aren't a whole lot of undyed jean uniforms out there and available. A number of fellows bought them a couple years ago for some event but I don't know of anyone making them now. So, it could be difficult having a unit with the right look if that was the impression, whereas most of us that do MSG have the civilian kit together. Someone who was in the decision making process can correct me on that one if I am wrong

[fahtz]

Re: Event Website

The main pitfall when working on a MSG impression lies in the fact that you CAN NOT say the state guard at Athens-Lexington-Carthage-Wilson's Creek-Pea Ridge were dressed and equipped the same. THEY WERE NOT. Different unit and different divisions had different things at the same time. We have documentation that at Wilson's Creek there were dark blue frocks coats and gray over shirts in UNIFORMED companies. Does this make it correct for Pea Ridge? No. Does it make it correct to Camp Jackson. Yes. Both units that were at Wilson's Creek were wearing the exact same thing a few months earlier in St Louis. However by Pea Ridge time...only a few dark blue frocks remained in Kelly's Company, which does make it appropriate...but in limited numbers (much like the actual number of living historians who have them). Who was consulted in forming these guidelines, and what sources were used? I bring this up because there is a specific piece of documentation that lists state guard companies wearing stripes on their trousers, when the guidelines strictly prohibit that.

[mslaird]

Re: Event Website

Mitch,

This is similar to what I was getting at when we discussed weaponry in another thread. I have not seen any real documentation to support the majority assertions about the guard aside from the scant accounts of observers and snippits from the diaries of soldiers. It is known that some soldiers were given to exaggeration when they wrote home and some veterans, not impuning thier honor, were given to a little exaggeration when they remembered events later.

The hard part about the guard is the variation of uniforms or lack thereof and equipment that existed throughout the war. A living historian's kit could include three and up to four different impressions to represent the differing periods of time in the guard's campaign history.

Chris is right that the confederate government provided monies for the MSG for equipment. They provided that equipment and it was issued out prior to Pea Ridge. Also, another fallacy is that the guard was armed with squirrel rifles and shotguns as late as Pea Ridge. (if they were, they were most likely the exception not the rule, unlike Wilson's Creek where a number of the guard were not armed with firearms at all but were carrying various implements for hand to hand combat, axes etc...) They captured enough arms to facilitate arming everyone with proper rifles, rifle muskets and muskets with many to spare and the commanders would have done so to avoid logistical problems with maintaining a supply of ammunition to the men during campaign. I have not completed primary research but I sure records exist that will document this. It is just a matter of finding them.

This is an area that I am particularly interested in because of the amount of assertions concerning what can and what cannot be done in the impressions when weighed against the scant amount of documentation.

This is similar to a philosophical debate in the manner that I don't think anyone is absolutely right and I do not think that anyone is completely wrong in thier impression as long as they use what was available in the theatre of war at the time period of the campaign that thier impression represents.

for example...A soldier in the MSG would not have been wearing a Columbus Depot jacket and lugging around an Enfield at Wilson's Creek. Just as I don't believe that a vast horde of squirrel rifle armed Missourians were at Pea Ridge assaulting the Federal position at the Elk Horn Tavern. As far as I have been lead to believe the majority of evidence found at the battlefield is of the .69 and .58 caliber munitions and suprisingly to me a very large amount of .54 caliber stuff suggesting not only the 1841 but the Lorenze as well. I don't recall seeing anything about a huge amount of odd calibers being found to support the squirrel rifle theory.

[csuniforms]

Re: Event Website-MSG CS Clothing

Without all the footnotes-- A Wagon train from Memphis arrived sometime in December for the Guard. Price was receiving clothing from donors, socks, shirts, shoes, etc. The uniforms were only for those who joined the Confederate Provisional Army. So, if you were a Guardsman and did not wish to sign up with the CS Army, than you would not get a new uniform! Many did not sign up, and returned home to carry on the War, took the oath, or went to California or Iowa until the War was over. Tom

CSUniforms
Tom Arliskas

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Event Website

I will have to reply later with the actual quote. But there is mention of Price's Army starting out having nothing and by the time they were pushed out of the state he had captured hundreds of muskets with bayonets.

I agree with Tom my understanding is that the new clothing seems to have been reserved for those that joined the Confederate Army.

Kelly's Company (The Washington Blues) left Camp Jackson shortly before it was captured. They were wearing their relatively new frock coats and carrying model 1855 Springfield rifle muskets. Who knows what those frock coats looked like after a two month campaign.

Prior to Pea Ridge many of them joined the Confederate army and were among those that got the "new" white uniforms. Evidently they also had to turn in those .58's for .69's. That must have been one happy company.
Frank

[csuniforms]

Re: Event Website-Mo. State Gd.

Again, Without all the footnotes-- Prices Missourians captured over 3,000 muskets and rifles at Lexington, with bayonets, along with all the leathers, grimley saddles, and sabres from the 1st Illinois Cav. The Guard also took their spare clothing, overcoats, shoes, shirts, and camp gear. The Guard, besides the 600 plus muskets and Bayonets they took from General Pearce, and the other 400 plus captured from the Union Home Guard, and the reported 1,500 picked up on the Wilson's Creek Battlefield, they were not lacking in military muskets and rifles.-- many of these guns were taken home by those who drifted in and out of the Guard-- It was stated in the newspapers after Lexington Price had 30,000 plus in his ranks[sic], but when he crossed the river, a majority stayed or went back to Missouri. That said, Prices Missourians though not in uniform dress were warmly clothed in captured Union clothing , donated clothing, and Guard Quartermaster clothing-- for the Winter of 1861. Right now I am looking up the donations sent to him from Memphis, Little Rock, and New Orleans. At one time I had this info., but it was misplaced in the move last spring and unfortunately in the same location your one sock goes to when washing clothes!! All this information with footnotes will be in the new Wearing the Gray book out hopefully next year. Tom

[Tenthtexas]

Re: Event Website

Gentlemen,
This event will be here soon enough. I wante to encourage everyone to go ahead and register for this event. It will be a good event with different aspects than other events the WIG has done. With the MSG and the 4th Ark. you had different gear and preparation, one a home guard and the other part of the confederate army. Just seeing the contrast in both will be impressive. We will be attempting to march in on the route taken when Van Dorn split his force to attack from two different fronts.
The park is very eager and excited to have the WIG come with its authentic mindset and be a part of the program.
Let's get out there and register so we can show them how the quality we deliver.
If there are any questions about the event, please do not hesitate to ask.

Art Milbert