Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

    Folks,

    There has been some chatter from the ranks regarding our decision to "pull the plug" at the Assault on Allegheny event yesterday. Although I am sure I won't answer all the questions or critiques, I must try to explain.

    First off, this event was set in a unique geography and climate. The terrain in the Allegheny Mountains of VA/WV is extremely rugged; the mountain grades are steep, and the changeable weather only increases the risks. We decided to stage two columns on Friday that both, once they stepped-off, would be miles from their vehicles. And not just simple road miles; miles that extended across dirt roads with steep grades (some of the slopes the Old Pike Road runs along are in excess of 70-degrees).

    Second, at about 4:30 PM on Saturday, we needed to decide on a course of action. Now bear in mind; I've been going to the Alleghenies since I was a teenage boy, long before I started reenacting. I know the terrain, the roads, and the dangers that can be posed there. In the summer, it rains there every night sometimes, but these are quick, "mountain" thunder-showers, and they generally dissipate around sunset. Unfortunately, when we checked the radar images, we realized that this was NOT the normal summer event on the Top of Allegheny. A front had stalled over our area; thunderstorms, some of them severe, had started to "train", one after the other, like boxcars on a railroad track. And they were training directly over where we were. The second, third and fourth of a total of at least five cells that had formed were moving towards us, they were severe, contained intense lightning, and they would hit us one after the other, until nearly dawn (we had over 3 inches of rain).

    So, we had to make a decision. We could:
    1. Stay put;
    2. Wait, and see if it got worse and then decide what to do;
    3. Pull the plug and get while the getting was good.

    Now here's where things get complicated. If we took option (1), then we would be facing the option of driving individuals down all night who DID want to leave. If someone decided to walk the 7.1 miles down to the parking area on their own, they would be doing it in total darkness, in pouring rain, and one misstep would mean we would have to do a mountainside rescue on slopes greater than 45-degrees. I do cave rescue, and believe me, trying to get someone off a mountainside in the pouring rain, who has a broken leg, twisted ankle or concussion is no joke.

    If we had waited, then things could have gotten even worse. The road conditions had already degenerated when we DID pull the plug to such a degree, that it was taking the shuttle trucks a full hour to make it down and up again (only 14.2 miles round trip!) Why was it taking so long you ask? Because as time went on, the Old Pike Road was turning into a mountain stream. Traction was bad due to the saturated clayey silt soils, visibility kept getting worse and worse, and eventually the whole Pike was locked in clouds and mist. If we had waited, it would have been that MUCH worse, and then we risked the possibility of a truck going off the Pike. Not something you'd want to take responsibility for.

    So we opted for (3) above.

    Now let's face it, the majority of our event goals had already been met in that we accomplished the marches and the Saturday skirmishes and battle. I regret that we weren't able to do the tours of the original site on Sunday morning, but sadly, that's how things go sometimes.

    If someone here want to get pissed-off at me or Dave or Scott for pulling the plug, so be it. We were playing (or being allowed to play) on private land, and the landowner even insisted that we cancel the event for safety's sake. But this wasn't an event where you could simply walk a mile or less on flat ground to get back to your vehicle. Nor did we have the luxury, as at our McDowell events, to put everyone up in emergency shelters. We had to make a command decision, and that was predicated on the safety of the participants, first and foremost. In all our years of staging events in VERY rugged and challenging terrain, we have never had a serious accident. We are very proud of that track record, and always want to keep it that way.

    So before you spew vitriol and criticism our way, put yourselves in our shoes, and think about it a little more. Maybe you'll take a more mature approach towards your reproach, eh?

    And one more thing...if, just if, someone had been seriously injured, or killed, because we had decided NOT to pull the plug, imagine what people would be saying then. Believe me, it would not have been pretty.

    Thanks to all those who have supported is in our decision. To those who disagree, accept my deepest apologies. But to all of you who came, happy or not, know that you participated in a unique, challenging and difficult event, and helped keep the museum in McDowell open for another two years by your generous contributions. We are all in your debt.

    With my sincerest regards,
    your servant, et c.,
    Bob Denton
    Assault on Allegheny Event Coordinator
    "If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders."

    George Carlin

  • #2
    Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

    Originally posted by BobDenton37thVA View Post
    So before you spew vitriol and criticism our way, put yourselves in our shoes, and think about it a little more. Maybe you'll take a more mature approach towards your reproach, eh?
    Bob-
    Thank you for looking after everyone's personal health. While we were a bit disappointed that the event was short-lived, we certainly enjoyed the time we were given and look forward to future prospects.

    Best,
    Last edited by Shockoe Hill Cats; 07-26-2009, 08:16 PM. Reason: Tired, misspelling
    Jason C. Spellman
    Skillygalee Mess

    "Those fine fellows in Virginia are pouring out their heart's blood like water. Virginia will be heroic dust--the army of glorious youth that has been buried there."--Mary Chesnut

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

      Honestly the only thing anyone can be pissed off at is the weather.
      James Duffney
      61st NY
      Brave Peacock Mess

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

        Amen brother.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

          Bob-

          I empathize. More than once, in the time leading up to the cancellation and during the retreat from the mountain top, I envisioned myself being responsible for the decision and logistics and I cannot imagine handling that with any kind of relish. I also admit feeling a little bit "out there" way on top with limited means of getting down safely under, frankly, hazardous circumstances (and none of them under my personal control except walking, an option with clear limitations of its own) and I think you do what you had to do. I knew the risks, so to speak, and have absolutely no ill feeling towards anyone. Look at what we do, for Pete's sake; and at the mercy of the elements to boot. No one could help that.

          Ultimately, I really enjoyed the event.
          Tom Scoufalos
          [IMG]http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=268&pictureid=2165[/IMG]

          "If you don't play with your toys, someone else will after you die." - Michael Schaffner, Chris Daley, and probably other people too...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

            Bob,

            I enjoyed the march (always enjoy marching/camping where the real soldiers did it), but I'm wondering where the contingency plan was.

            As eluded above...also knowing the Allegheneys and that a 30% chance of rain from March to October ought to be taken as a 95% chance of rain, I feel we as a team of organizers/officers/soldiers were ill-prepared for what we should have seen coming.

            Having an event site so remotely located, calling the event off, not getting folks off the mountain until 2030, and then having the only option be to drive the 1-1.5 hr. East to Staunton for the night (after these guys were wet/cold/tired/hungry) seems almost of equal peril (if not greater)...yes I've driven those mountain roads before and with the weather and folks being tired I know they can be dangerous (had a friend in college drive over one of those mountain sides).

            Plan B: If events in remote locations get 'called-off' because of peril, there's got to be a better option than sending these guys so far away to have solice for the night.

            Paul B.

            (Who was dry, fed, and settling in for the night when the event was called...)
            Paul B. Boulden Jr.


            RAH VA MIL '04
            (Loblolly Mess)
            [URL="http://23rdva.netfirms.com/welcome.htm"]23rd VA Vol. Regt.[/URL]
            [URL="http://www.virginiaregiment.org/The_Virginia_Regiment/Home.html"]Waggoner's Company of the Virginia Regiment [/URL]

            [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]Company of Military Historians[/URL]
            [URL="http://www.moc.org/site/PageServer"]Museum of the Confederacy[/URL]
            [URL="http://www.historicsandusky.org/index.html"]Historic Sandusky [/URL]

            Inscription Capt. Archibold Willet headstone:

            "A span is all that we can boast, An inch or two of time, Man is but vanity and dust, In all his flower and prime."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

              Originally posted by Stonewall_Greyfox View Post
              East to Staunton for the night (after these guys were wet/cold/tired/hungry) seems almost of equal peril (if not greater)...yes I've driven those mountain roads before and with the weather and folks being tired I know they can be dangerous (had a friend in college drive over one of those mountain sides).
              I made that drive and was never so schizy and whiteknuckled behind the wheel in my life....should have had a tiny caption at the bottom that said "Closed course. Professional Driver." Holy hell. Heavy rain. Dense patchy fog. One more grade warning sign and I would've gone flat postal. (I was inordinately pissed after the second mountain or so...little did I know there were, like, 673 more). "Loose Gravel". "Beware fallen rocks". "No littering" (well, that one was okay except it was in the middle of a turn that probably should have been labelled with a "15 mph" sign and a bunch of chevrons at diminishing intervals instead) ... I wouldn't have been surprized to see a "Caution: Tellermine area" or "Beware Charging Unicorns" the way things were goin'. Too bad I didn't have a lump of coal 'cause my wife would've had a stone to rival the Hope diamond by the time I hit Staunton if it were located in the proper anatomic position. Gawd.
              Tom Scoufalos
              [IMG]http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=268&pictureid=2165[/IMG]

              "If you don't play with your toys, someone else will after you die." - Michael Schaffner, Chris Daley, and probably other people too...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                Having been there and done that, sitting alone and making decisions that you know will be discussed for months maybe years on the forums is an extremely lonely place to be.

                Sometimes you make the right one, sometimes not. But you have to make a decisions based upon the imperfect information.

                Huge thanks to anyone who takes up the mantel and runs an event. The last thing you want to see is that 18 months of hard work is destroyed in a few hours bad weather, or a few days of forum postings.

                Till you have been there, with hundreds to thousands of folks dependant on you and your decision, you cannot appreciate the situation.

                I cannot comment on the event and exact situation first hand. I was still in the process of moving and everything I had lined up fell apart thursday, and having renters moving in this week, I had no choice but to finish the hand.

                I would have much rather been on a Mountain in WV getting rained on. Trust me.

                But knowing Bob and Dave, I am sure they made the right choice for most of the folks invloved.

                Some folks will say otherwise, and that is their right.

                Can't please everyone all the time. Have that T shirt.

                Pards,
                S. Chris Anders

                "Authenticity Glorifies the Campaign"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                  Bob,

                  Having been in those shoes a couple of times, I can appreciate the full range of emotions you went through making that decision. I'm sure you are just as disappointed as any participant that the event was called early and you didn't get to finish the thing as planned. The descriptions I've heard about the road conditions and the weather expected make me think you did the right thing.

                  As much as any other campaigner, I'm ready to take my misery at an event and consider it "doing as they did" and can equally understand the frustrations and disappoints of those that were able to secure shelter and food and felt they could make it through the night. Bully for you! Next time, maybe you can stay. But this time the event folks had things to consider other than your desires.

                  If you went and weren't prepared with the necessary skills to make it through the night, find some knowledgeable folks and ask them to take you camping and teach you. It doesn't have to be an event or a long drive, just some field nearby for the night.
                  Joe Smotherman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                    Gentleman,

                    Have to say thanks to those who volunteered to shuttle dirty/wet reenactors
                    down the pike late Sat afternoon. "The Evacuation" went off well, for not being planned.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                      I think there is a custom/rule on this board that you don't make a statement without citing a historical reference to back it up.
                      I would propose a "rule" that you shouldn't complain about or question the judgement of event organizers without offering a viable solution or alternative.

                      Thanks again to the event organizers. Know that your efforts are appreciated by a great many that attended.
                      "God created Man...Sam Colt made us equal."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                        This was my first campaigning event (as was also true for my friend that came along), and we had a blast. We will definitely do this again. The march was simply amazing and the battle on Saturday was also quite an experience. Engaging the Federals on the road and in the trees was inspirational. Many thanks to the civilian women selling vittles on the road to meet the Feds - the rolls and apple butter were GREAT!

                        Many thanks to the Federals as well. You took many convincing hits on the road and persevered after a long, hard, uphill march.

                        Standing on the ridge top with those glorious views, watching the Federals march across the meadow towards us, hearing those eery echos of musket fire returning across the valley, afterwards huddling under a shebang in the rain muching on dinner - all cherished memories...

                        KUDOS to the band!!! Their music was inspirational on the march and helped me to get a real 1860's buzz on the Old Pike Rd. Heck, they even played during the evacuation from the mountain while it was raining. Made me think of the Titanic...

                        I was initially disappointed when the event was called, but after I got home to Charlottesville Saturday night and saw the same radar picture that the organizers must have seen, I was grateful for their wise decision!!

                        Thanks for a great and memorable event!
                        Matt O'Driscoll
                        1st Reg. KY Volunteers, Co. E

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                          A note that I sent to Dave via Email.
                          Mr. Pridgeon,
                          I understood and fully accepted your decision. I had a grand old time and eagerly await y'alls next adventure for us.
                          Logistically I feel a Superb job was preformed by your Staff especially the evacuation under the circumstances. Thank you for forcing the issue with some of us more hard headed Sons.
                          Perhaps finding a suitable area in the town for us to pitch camp or notifying us of permission of the owner of the drive in for us to stay in our vehicles would be food for future thought.
                          Once again thanks to you and the PSL for a great event. Please send my personal thanks to the land owner for sharing some of the most beautiful land I have ever had the privilege of playing on.

                          I would also like to thank those who helped get us down. Great Pards you truely are.
                          I remain Your Most Humble Servant,
                          Chris Fisher
                          [COLOR="Blue"][I]GGGS Pvt Lewis Davenport
                          1st NY Mounted Rifles
                          Enlisted Jan 1864 Discharged Nov 1865[/I][/COLOR]
                          [I][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Member Co[COLOR="DarkGreen"][/COLOR]mpany of Military Historians[/COLOR][/I]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                            Hallo!

                            Without shades of the Modern Military's duties to the "mission" and the "men,"

                            My compliments to the commanders for making the tough and potentially unpopular Real World decision.

                            A "command" is only as strong as its and most ill-prepared and inexperienced men. Accident, harm, or serious injuries were avoided.

                            Being from that part of the country, the dangers of the mountains are not a matter of opinion or debate. Nature is very unforgiving, and experience is a harsh teacher.

                            There are few outdooor experiences more challenging than being on a mountain top during a severe mountain storm. My last one on the second highest peak in Pennsylvania, miles from vehicles, under a ground cloth, with gale force winds, multiple lightning striking trees 50 and 75 feet away, and finding four inches of water in my cup come morning light was... memorable.

                            I am reminded of "Northwest Passage."

                            Hunk Marriner: [upset] But I'd hate to be a man and always be as right as you are.
                            Maj. Robert Rogers: I'm not a man now, Sergeant. I'm a soldier and commander of men.
                            [pause]
                            Maj. Robert Rogers: If you ever meet me when I'm just a man, you may have to use a little charity.
                            Hunk Marriner: [shocked] Yes, sir.
                            [pause]
                            Hunk Marriner: I'm sorry, sir.


                            Again compliments to everyone involved.

                            Curt
                            Curt Schmidt
                            In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                            -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                            -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                            -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                            -Vastly Ignorant
                            -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: AoA...Decisions, and why they are not so easy...

                              Bob and Dave, you made the right call.

                              Thanks for making possible some great memories of that awesome land.

                              Also, many thanks to the Ls. and S. for letting us play on their properties. There are few people whom would allow this these days.
                              Yours, most respectfully,
                              Kevin Kilcommons

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X