Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

[trippcor]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

I just got an updated price on the Spencer Rifles. They are now $925.00 instead of $1,125.00. The original price I had was a couple of months old when the US dollar was down against most other currencies. Now they all are down so we can get a better deal.

One thing I forgot to mention was that the manufacturer will need at least a 60 day notice with an order this large. So the money for these will all need to be in by Aug 10, 2009 to give us a little buffer.

I also want to thank Jim Kindred for helping Matt and I navigate the legal issues on this one. He is making sure we all stay in the good graces of the ATF.

[Dbackfed]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

Sign me up for a Spencer! I only thought they made a repro of the 1865 version.

[JimKindred]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

It will be the 1865, ArmiSport has it misidentified on their website as the 1860.

This is the same rifle ArmiSport calls an 1860 - http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfSpencer.tpl

I would not be too be picky between the 1860 and 1865, both were rimfires and the reproduction is not. You have to have a little give and take on these if you want a Spencer of any kind.

[Mike Nickerson]

Yes there are reliable sources from blanks for both. The Spencer 56-50 blanks are not cheap if you get the brass ones. There is a company here in the Atlanta area that makes a harden plastic blank cartridge that works well. As I said we are working on putting together some sort of bulk buys for these as well. Due to the popularity of Wild West shooting, blanks for the Henry are easily available. Matt already has a lead on this from a guy that makes blanks for Hollywood. He might even do the Spencer blanks. ...

To say the "harden plastic blanks" work well, might be a little bit of a reach. If you talk to some of my fellow Critters, you will find some repo Spencer’s do OK with the plastic shells and some don't. My Spencer carbine took modification of the loading tube to feed correctly (flaring out the mouth of the slide tube).

Also, if I fire over 10 to 20 rounds (enough to get the barrel hot), I experience an occasional tearing off of the plastic extraction flange. Which leaves a stuck round in the breech. This problem led the Critters to having one trooper carrying "the stick", a make shift wooden dowel used to drive the stuck round out of the breech.

Here is a link to a Cav. discussion on ammo that may be helpful: http://uhlan.proboards34.com/index.c...lay&thread=145
Also Henry blanks (3 in 1) at $0.62 per round by mail at: http://www.cmsaweb.com/store/page14.html

As for the "Blakeslee cartridge box," might want to do some research. They were issued late and in small numbers.

Hope that helps!

Mike Nickerson

[trippcor]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

The loading tub on my Spencer Carbine had to be flared a little too. This took all of 5 seconds at an event. I too had a problem with the first round of plastic blanks Coley had made. Since then they hardened them a bit more and I have not had trouble. Of course any plastic is going to weaken when heat is applied. As I said brass ones are availble though I have not tried them.

Cost wise though the Brass are much more expensive. Brass blanks are almost a $1.00 a round at normal retail prices. The plastic ones run about $0.40 around.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

I'm in for a Spencer Rifle.

[Mike Nickerson]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

....The plastic ones run about $0.40 around.

Tripp, that's not counting the price of loading up with B/P and shotgun primers?

Mike Nickerson

[Csayankee]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

Jordan,

I have a gun shop around the corner that will cost only $15 dollars for a transfer if you need I can grab it for you.

[Shotgun Messiah]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

Okay now I am interested.. I want a Spencer rifle, even though I will be Georgia Militia, I want one, so Maybe rent a Spencer offer ....

[thad gallagher]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

I am in for a Spencer. It had always been my "dream" rifle, and the one I would get when I won the lottery. Now thanks to Mr. Woodburn's and Mr. Corbin's efforts and the "layaway program" it is actually doable.:)

[trippcor]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

I also wanted to mention the Spencers also come with a nice hard plastic carrying case.

[Matt Woodburn]

Guys,

To help all of you get the answers you need (I've been getting alot of emails and PMs)...Tripp knows all the info (cost, shipping costs, shipping requirements, FFL transfer costs, model, where to get rounds, cost of rounds, modification requirements if any, pickup locations, etc. on the Spencers. I know the info on the Henrys. The rental program mentioned, probably shouldn't have been mentioned. I am doing this with Henry's only, and then only in my foraging party. I'd love to be able to finance this for everyone, but I'm stopping at the 25 in my party. I hope you guys understand. But anyone who wants to buy can still save an average of $300 on either of these fine rifles. Buying 25 Henrys at one time is causing issues with the ATF that we're are working around to keep it legal. In the eyes of the ATF, Henry's and Spencers are the same thing as a modern civilian AR-15. Center fire, metallic cartridge, repeating/semi-automatic weapon. The only mechanical difference is gas vs. manual lever cartridge cycling. So, it's very different than muzzle loaders. Actually I can BUY 100 Henrys with no problem. Taking RECEIPT of 100 Henrys would get me and the FFL holder a special visit from the ATF. But we have a good man working on this who has been doing this for 30 years. He knows the laws and is getting it worked out, so this can happen. I am working on pickup possibilities also and will do all that I can within the law to save you guys money. The most expensive method will be you paying for shipping from my FFL dealer to your FFL dealer who also charges you a fee. The least expensive is for me to get these and you pick them up, but it has some legal challenges that we are looking into. More on how we do this later. As for rounds for the Henrys, I am working with a supplier that will make black powder blanks that will cycle with no jamming or require modifications to the Henrys. Making this as smooth and seamless as possible.

So info for Henrys as of now:

Model: Civil War brass frame, without sling swivels (swivels available at extra charge)
Caliber: 44-40 center fire (45 LC available for purchasers, but you figure out your own blanks)
Modification requirements for blanks: none
Cost: $870 ($933 with swivels)
Shipping to my FFL dealer: TBD
Shipping to you: TBD
FFL dealer transfer fee: TBD
Cost of metallic rounds: estimated at $35/100 rounds in 44-40 caliber in the Woodburn buy from joeswansonblanks.com

Bottom line for purchasers: you'll spend $900-$950 for a fine Henry rifle which will save you $200-300 on the retail price. You will have it to use at future mid-late war events for as many years as you stay in the hobby. It will also be a fine civilian impression rifle. Many of the older guys that will be leaving military impressions in the next 10 years will have a very useable rifle for post war/going west/mining camp/old west/etc. events that many of us are already planning (some of these will be more fun than Civil War events). The Henrys will also be alot of fun for live target shooting and hunting (know the laws in your state before you hunt). And if you ever decide to sell your Henry, whether it's in 1 year or in 30 years, you can mark it up to $1000, undercut what new ones sell for, and still sell it for a profit. Now that makes sense. So much sense, that if I didn't have the money in my regular budget but really wanted one, I'd take a part-time job -temporarily- delivering pizzas. I'd have my money in only 30-60 days. I'd do it before summer and get in on this deal. Even if it's for a Spencer. And if not pizzas, some other part-time job that could make me a quick $1000. A bar tender or server at a busy restaurant, a busy hotel valet all can make that in 30 days. If you have some "stuff" that you don't use anymore in the garage, basement, closet..., you could put it on Ebay or have a garage sale. A few guys are selling knit wool items to buy their rifle. More specials to be announced on the AC this year! I used to go around and get used skids/pallets from businesses and take them to a pallet refurbisher to get $2-$3 each to make my hobby money. Then it's over and you got your rifle. Your rifle would become an item of pride to you. It would remind you that when you wanted something extra, you took the bull by the horns and did something to make it happen. It would stand as confidence building reminder that you can get something done when you set your mind to it. I hope this encourages everyone of you that really wants a rifle to know you can get one.

[BrandonEnglish]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

I also have two quick questions. Is there a reliable source of blank ammunition for the Spencers or Henrys, and did troops carry bayonets with their Spencers? I know that the Henry does not carry one, but as I recall, the Spencer could carry one. I know time, place, and unit matters on the bayonet question, but at least some idea one way or another would be nice.

For my money for both my Henry and my M1 in WWII stuff, Joe Swanson is the best guy out there for blanks, they are hot rounds and don't "leak" like a lot of blank guys out there. Joe makes his own 5-1 blanks for the Henry out of brass and he can do black and smokeless powder, they are leaps and bounds over the plastic 5-1 that Cabelas, etc sell.

[trippcor]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

I have contacted Joe Swanson about the blanks for the Spencers as well. Waiting on word. I am hoping we can get a good price and possibly some additional discounts we are able to order both the Henry and Spencer blanks from the same place.

[JimKindred]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

To add to what Matt wrote about the Henry's, when the last assault weapons ban was written Henry rifles were listed as an assault rifle due to the number of rounds held in the magazine. Fortunately good sense entered the picture and they were exempt from the first ban. You can count on this ban coming up again within the next four years, will it be voted in? No one can say for sure but with the caliber of our D's and R's in congress the ban is still a possibility. Will Henry's be exempt? Currently they are listed on the 2008 proposal as assault weapons, I kid you not. If you thought this was all about AK's and AR's you are wrong.

Appendix A shows the list being proposed - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...8THhy8:e12727: I am sure there are a few of you who have Marlin 30-30s in your closet, yep, those will be assault weapons too.

So the bottom line of all this is if you want a Henry, get it and avoid the rush. As in the first ban currently owned models manufactured before the ban will probably be exempt. If they are banned you can expect the prices to double or triple overnight.

Oh, don't think you are safe with a Spencer either, these could just as easily end up on the list.

On another subject Matt brought up, to save you some money I can ship these directly from my place of business to your local FFL. This is how the deal with "Spencers for Critters" program worked several years ago. The only difference was that with the Critters each member paid for his own rifle through me. Matt and I can work this out later as this program matures.

Shipping is the least complicated part of this whole deal.