AAR Bummers

[Hank Trent]

Re: AAR Bummers

Who amongst us would like to be the unit Commander of more likely, the Orderly Sgt. who is informed that one of their guys didn't make it home... he fell asleep on the drive back, and in the back of your mind you can't help but think... was he one the fellows I put on Guard duty last night between 12 and 4?

Sorry, but I don't see the moral responsibility there. Maybe it's a military-civilian outlook-on-life difference, but what I do when I leave an event is my own responsibility and no one else's business.

In fact, I see a moral responsibility the other way.

If a reenactor spends hard-earned dollars and a great deal of effort to prepare for and travel to a promised experience, and then that experience is refused him because the organizers don't think he can handle what they'd already told him he should be ready to handle if he came, I consider that a moral failing. Deception is not good.

If some organizers want to say that there will be no action Saturday night, then say that up front and let participants decide ahead of time if it's worth the trouble of attending. Truth in advertising.

But I see no reason why every event must be that way. I'd hate to see one side of the c/p/h hobby start putting guilt on the other side for having exciting things happen Saturday night, otherwise we'll be headed back to the days when sleeping without tents and eating unrefrigerated bacon was too dangerous and participants all should be allowed coolers and cots for their own safety.

But none of the above is a criticism of Bummers. That was a case of s--- happens. Geez, don't walk off without telling somebody. What a mess. It was a fair call and it didn't affect me anyway as I didn't even know where I'd be Saturday night, so I had zero expectations on that score.

I just don't want the hobby to fall into a pattern of promising the moon, then not delivering, so the rainpussies and mountainpussies can attend, knowing that events will accomodate their needs at the last minute, rather than the needs of those who are prepared for what's promised. It's like "no alcohol." Who really believed Bummers would be a no-alcohol event? Okay, so, challenging marches, sleepless nights... what if we get to the point where nobody believes those will really happen either? Hopefully not in my hobby.

By the way.... I'd like to take you up on the offer to make period maps for an event.

Sure--be glad to. Just let me know what you need.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Bill Cross]

Re: AAR Bummers

Hank, I would be happy to discuss this with you on the phone if you are interested. The key difference between you and Amos and our group is that you could move about the property as you saw fit or circumstances allowed. We were part of a column, attempting to be a military-style organization, moving along a pre-determined march route. There was a chain-of-command, and we attempted to follow it. Saturday night, you two were ready to be in-period, while some of my men were simply played-out.

Why didn't we "push back" against our division commanders? Well, as I said, we were trying to act like good, period soldiers. But an additional complication was the fact that, traveling single file, the officers in charge of each foraging party had no way of knowing what lay ahead (or how bad it actually was). We assumed - wrongly it turned out - that we would not need all morning to traverse that flooded road, and that up around the bend the road would be passable or we'd reach a turn-off and begin foraging. By the time we were asked to scale that 50' escarpment, there was really no turning back. We kept hearing "just a little further." I tried to make sure all my men were safe, and we scaled the mountain above the escarpment at a pace I felt was appropriate. Some of the units moved ahead, but most of the men were exhausted and needed rest, water and rations.

Regarding guard duty, I can say that the 48th IL (my group) and the rest of the 2nd Division after it was turned over to me by Tripp Corbin were ready to stand guard and would have done so. But given that I had an 800 mile trip home the next morning, I believe the organizers made the right decision to let the participants get a good night's sleep. Those who feel that was "farbing out" are entitled to their opinion.

[Bill]

Re: AAR Bummers

Military reenacting isn't really my thing, but my absolute favorite part is standing picket duty at night and the realism of an active enemy nearby instead of the mainstreamism of the other side camped in view and wandering over to visit. If enemy threats are eliminated from the hobby Saturday night, geez, there goes my last incentive. :(

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

Hank,

I opened this can of worms, so I guess I should respond. Over the years, I've attended a reasonable number of events. I've never seen one where the participants were more wasted than they were Saturday evening. As you know, almost everyone in our camp, except for the guys in the 30th. Ohio, who were already on guard, were asleep by 8:00 PM. I was doing my best to stay awake, since I figured that if I went to sleep, there would be nobody to wake up the guys in the 48th. Illinois for their turn on guard duty. As Sergeant of the Guard, I was pretty sure I'd be awake for most of our four hour shift. (Been there, done that, got the T-shirt) To say the least, I was not a happy camper. Having said that, if a truce hadn't been called, I would have played the game.

When I went around to the other detachments to let them know guard had been cancelled, (I was now working for the new Division Commander) nobody complained. I'm sure there were other guys who would have wanted to get up in the middle of the night to stare at trees; but, I would guess they were very much in the minority.

As far as I know, no Confederates came to visit on Saturday evening. Maybe they were as tired as we were! :)

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: AAR Bummers

Horses. If they would have had them, they woulda used em'.

Wait. They did have them.

I was dissuaded from bringing a horse to an upcoming event as there was no "cavalry" action there. Ok. But those miles of infantry columns had equine support.

As I said before, 2 mounted men per column could have solved all of the issues that arose. No need for maps, the troopers can lead the way.

Dave Myrick

[BrianHicks]

Re: AAR Bummers

Sorry, but I don't see the moral responsibility there. Maybe it's a military-civilian outlook-on-life difference, but what I do when I leave an event is my own responsibility and no one else's business.

I agree that what one does after they leave an event, is their own affair, but I think we should also consider what physical effects certain activities at an event may have on the participants when they leave the event.

On this, I absolutely agree with you:

If a reenactor spends hard-earned dollars and a great deal of effort to prepare for and travel to a promised experience, and then that experience is refused him because the organizers don't think he can handle what they'd already told him he should be ready to handle if he came, I consider that a moral failing. Deception is not good.

If some organizers want to say that there will be no action Saturday night, then say that up front and let participants decide ahead of time if it's worth the trouble of attending. Truth in advertising.

I don't think an event like that would attract me.

But I see no reason why every event must be that way. I'd hate to see one side of the c/p/h hobby start putting guilt on the other side for having exciting things happen Saturday night, otherwise we'll be headed back to the days when sleeping without tents and eating unrefrigerated bacon was too dangerous and participants all should be allowed coolers and cots for their own safety.

Again... I absolutely agree with you. With the exception of certain non scripted catastrophes infringing on an event, such as a serious participant injury (like being a soldier being bitten by a copperhead-it happened at new hope church, a man reportedly lost in the ravines, and thought to be injured and alone- it happened at Bummers, etc), an event should go non-stop form the advertised start time to the finish time. A military event should have the units operate as a military unit throughout. If Guards and pickets are part of the historical narrative being replicated, then they should not be called in, just because it's the last night of the event. Those who have been at an event with me, have experienced that at the beginning of the event, I strive to have identified, those whom are most at risk if they attempt a long drive after sleep deprivation on the last night of the event. While I don't force those men to sleep a certain amount of hour,I do endeavor to have them stand less duty on the last night, thus ensuring they are at less risk after leaving the event..

I just don't want the hobby to fall into a pattern of promising the moon, then not delivering, so the rainpussies and mountainpussies can attend, knowing that events will accomodate their needs at the last minute, rather than the needs of those who are prepared for what's promised. It's like "no alcohol." Who really believed Bummers would be a no-alcohol event? Okay, so, challenging marches, sleepless nights... what if we get to the point where nobody believes those will really happen either? Hopefully not in my hobby.

...and again, I fully agree. We should never alter an event, dum down, or lower the bar on our event activities as a means of pacifying, satisfying or attracting those who are suffering, unwilling, or afraid to get out of their comfort zones... those folks should stay at home, or go to mainstream type affairs.

Sure--be glad to. Just let me know what you need.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

I'll work on getting the topo map. It may be a few weeks, then I'll contact you and coordinate getting them sent out.

Thanks

[IowaYank]

Re: AAR Bummers

Bill, About ten of us Shannon's Scouts did hit a camp of Federals on Saturday night just to get them on their toes. Our plan was to hit them, go back to camp, hit them with a few guys a couple hours later, then go back to camp for good. This way we would have kept them on their toes and wondering if we were going to hit again. After we hit them the first time, we were informed by a militia commander on our ride back to camp that we were not supposed to attack them again that night, as a truce was called. If they had not told us that,,,,,we would have made several more visits that night!!!

Dan

[PetePaolillo]

Re: AAR Bummers

Bill, About ten of us Shannon's Scouts did hit a camp of Federals on Saturday night just to get them on their toes. Our plan was to hit them, go back to camp, hit them with a few guys a couple hours later, then go back to camp for good. This way we would have kept them on their toes and wondering if we were going to hit again. After we hit them the first time, we were informed by a militia commander on our ride back to camp that we were not supposed to attack them again that night, as a truce was called. If they had not told us that,,,,,we would have made several more visits that night!!!

Dan

Dan You guys should have visited the 3rd division on top of the ridge..But I think the snoring would have scared the horses cause we weren't waking up...Best night of sleep I have had in awhile:D

[Hank Trent]

Re: AAR Bummers

We were part of a column, attempting to be a military-style organization, moving along a pre-determined march route. There was a chain-of-command, and we attempted to follow it.....
Why didn't we "push back" against our division commanders?...

Guess maybe I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that you or anyone lower down should disobey orders or take control. I meant at the highest level, whoever was deciding the march route should either have a way to choose an easier route if they wanted, or take the men over the demanding route because that was the goal.

If the highest command didn't feel they were lacking in knowledge or options and chose the steep route on purpose, then there really isn't anything that could be changed with maps and my suggestion of maps is moot. Since I wasn't on the climb and didn't expect to be a forager, I'll leave it to others to comment on whether what happened was good, bad, or indifferent, if the climb was a deliberate choice.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Hank Trent]

Re: AAR Bummers

Over the years, I've attended a reasonable number of events. I've never seen one where the participants were more wasted than they were Saturday evening.

Yeah, that's the thing, and it's one of the many reasons why nothing I say is meant to apply to the decision to cancel the pickets at Bummers. Something apparently didn't work. Either the organizers/officers over-judged the participants' physical stamina and wore them out by doing planned activities, or the officers didn't have access to information that would allow them to change their plans before Saturday evening.

I dunno. It's a good learning experience either way, for future organizers to see what typical participants can do, and/or to see what information needs to be in the hands of commanders to allow them to adapt as they go.

Just so long as there are more events like Bummers. Did I mention I had fun? :D

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[PetePaolillo]

Re: AAR Bummers

Just so long as there are more events like Bummers. Did I mention I had fun? :D

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

With all the back and forth about being tired, having to climb a hill, lack of picketts and posts from people who did not even go... etc etc... ...I am glad to see Hank keeping it all in perspective.. Amen to what You said!:)

I had a blast!

[Rob Murray]

Re: AAR Bummers

*Deciding NOT to draw rations Friday night because we would be finding lots of food Saturday.

Pat, in all seriousness, if the 1st Division opted out of the ration issue Friday evening, why did every other man in the 2nd and 3rd Divisions have to give up their meat ration. And what became of them.

The men in my foraging party were on half rations because of this.

[coastaltrash]

Re: AAR Bummers

I am guessing Craddock's group refused to draw rations after this took place. Because speaking for myself and the other two groups around me at the time, we did not even have the option of food until the commissary tried to unfu*k itself and distribute what they could after someone drew twice the amount of meat.

[Hank Trent]

Re: AAR Bummers

Brian, we're probably way more in agreement on this than even we realize. :D

Those who have been at an event with me, have experienced that at the beginning of the event, I strive to have identified, those whom are most at risk if they attempt a long drive after sleep deprivation on the last night of the event. While I don't force those men to sleep a certain amount of hour, I do endeavor to have them stand less duty on the last night, thus ensuring they are at less risk after leaving the event.

Y'know, to go along with that, I think the key point is... since this isn't the real army (or a real employee-employer relationship for civilians, etc.), nobody can force anyone to do anything.

In real life, officers, employers, patriarchs of a family, and so forth, have more power over those beneath them and thus also more responsibility. Also, from the point of view of those beneath them, there's more fear of disobeying because the consequences are greater; it's not an easy decision.

In this hobby, all it takes is, "Hey, out of character, for real, I'm not feeling up to... Instead, let me...." and it's done. Sure, there are a few cases where everybody needs to pitch in to help out in an emergency, but in most cases, participants are volunteering for the weekend experience, not trying to avoid it unnecessarily, so the "bad" jobs don't need to be forced on those who don't want them. In real life, I'd never volunteer to empty slop buckets, but at Ft. Pulaski...

I'll work on getting the topo map. It may be a few weeks, then I'll contact you and coordinate getting them sent out.

Great! I need a project this winter. :)

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Amos]

Re: AAR Bummers

Hank,
Save me one of those maps. :D



Chuck "Amos" Reynolds

[Bill]

Re: AAR Bummers

Bill, About ten of us Shannon's Scouts did hit a camp of Federals on Saturday night just to get them on their toes. Our plan was to hit them, go back to camp, hit them with a few guys a couple hours later, then go back to camp for good. This way we would have kept them on their toes and wondering if we were going to hit again. After we hit them the first time, we were informed by a militia commander on our ride back to camp that we were not supposed to attack them again that night, as a truce was called. If they had not told us that,,,,,we would have made several more visits that night!!!

Dan

Dan,

Yeah, that was us. My corn-on-the-cob got burned up during your first visit. If they hadn't called a truce we would have had guards in place to greet you when you came back later.

Instead, we got a good night's sleep.