AAR Bummers

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: AAR Bummers

Rob,

Craddock's party may not have recieved their rations Friday night, but the commissary officer and I saw to it that 4 of the parties in 1st Divn. got their meager rations. It amounted to 3-4, 1 inch thick slices of bacon per party. Somehow the 1st division was overlooked in the distribution and the commissary officer made the correction. It was the intention of the organizers to require flat havesacks and provide very little that night to make the need for searching the next day serious. Now if we'd only found some pickled peaches being put up for the winter... Good to see you at the event briefly.

[flattop32355]

Re: AAR Bummers

I'm not cool, tough or liked enough to do your events.......

but I am all about the history and have invested some serious book time into "the March to the Sea"..... can you advise where Sherman's forces negotiated a truce which allowed US forces to pull their pickets between ATL and SC ?

or was this for event related purposes?

A modern expedient/compromise to allow modern men not used to the exertions of the day, on both sides, to have a time to fully relax and regroup.

The period equivalent would have been the foraging parties reconnecting with their regiments before night and enjoying the safety of numbers, something we could not do, as there was no "main body" to provide that protection.

The truce ran about 9:00 pm Saturday night until 6:00 am Sunday morning. The one viable way for the Rebs to reach us in the dark without killing themselves trying had been probed repeatedly by cavalry from 6 pm on. I know, because I was in the party on picket from 6-10 pm that pushed out our perimeter and held it until the truce was enacted.

I'm no more cool or tough than you are, and I made it through cheerfully.

As for the not liked enough part, well, that's for you to work on as you choose.

[flattop32355]

Re: AAR Bummers

I'm already down for Kabuki whatever is going on at Port Republic next spring. Someone else will have to bring the map.

You're not going to forgive yourself for that one are you, Bill. ;)
We have, and would have marched the rest of the way with you, in the dark.

In effect, all you did was take the first right instead of the second one.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: AAR Bummers

See I learned something here today I never read or came across......Foraging Federals who bedded down for the night on active campaign in hostile, enemy territory didn't post pickets or was it that foragers always made it back to the lines and its picket cover ?

CR, I love you like a brother. You personally chose not to participate when multiple opportunities where provided to you. So don't go boo-hoo-ing now.

I'm making a point that the regimental foraging parties jobs where to leave in the morning, forage and then bring back what they found to a commisary. It was not the role of the foraging parties to set up a 360% defense. Pickets are the job of the main column. Now if the respective participants had bothered to read the history of the first 10 days of the march to the sea, they may have figured this out.

You are welcome to fall in with me and my mates anytime when you can check your attitude at the door and be ready to soldier on. Come to McAlister and I'll have whiskey for you.

In the meantime, you should shut your mouth about what did or did not occur at Bummers since you stayed home and were not there to experience it.

[Bushrod Carter]

Re: AAR Bummers

Pat, in all seriousness, if the 1st Division opted out of the ration issue Friday evening, why did every other man in the 2nd and 3rd Divisions have to give up their meat ration. And what became of them.

The men in my foraging party were on half rations because of this.

Rob, my party decided - for the experience - not to draw rations Friday night. The rations collected by the Commissary Officer were issued to the other parties, and were offered to us, but we chose to divide ours among the other bumming parties of the 1st Division. As Woodburn said, what they drew (WITH our portion) was just a few pieces of bacon to be divide among 25 men.

Our crystal ball told us there would be PLENTY of food the next day...and that we wouldn't go hungry. :sarcastic Well, about early afternoon on Saturday, after having nothing but a few bites of corn since noon the day before, our stomachs got the best of us and we set out to the closest cabin in search of food. Our stomachs led us right into a den of CS Cav. and the rest is history.

So, don't think your food was waisted. It did go to grateful recipients...and I don't think any struggled under the burden of what rations they did receive Friday night.

[flattop32355]

Re: AAR Bummers

Either the organizers/officers over-judged the participants' physical stamina and wore them out by doing planned activities, or the officers didn't have access to information that would allow them to change their plans before Saturday evening.

I think the more accurate assessment was that a situation (the flooded road, and the lack of maps to see an alternative to pressing on along the hillside) forced a far greater physical effort for the men than was ever anticipated. That same situation then caused an extended lack of water and food for the greater part of the men involved, additionally sapping their reserve strength.

Lost and inadequate radios by the scouts also played a part, at least for 2nd Division.

One thing about the maps that no one has mentioned is that Sherman had done an extensive study of the areas he intended to march through, including a study of census data to know the amount of food produced. They weren't just blindly marching off to the SE. He knew the main roads/railroads, though some of the secondary ones proved to be less than advertised. This may not haved had direct bearing on the small-scale section of the march that we tried to simulate, but it does show that, as best possible, higher command had access to maps of the route.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: AAR Bummers

Doc B is my hero.

I would be very satisified if the Division Commanders and the Guides would just come clean and accept their complicity in busting the scenario. They are the ones who choose poor routes, witheld time table information and witheld maps from the foraging party leaders. This isn't shameful, but a simple fact. Bad choices where made.

In my experience as a Sergeant in a 3rd Division Foraging Party, I trusted that we where being led to where we needed to be. By 3:00pm on Saturday after 7 hours of schleping thought the woods I knew we where not where we should be.

I won't let that happen again, I also know which 'Commanders' and 'Guides' need to be avoided in the future.

[jake.koch]

Re: AAR Bummers

I do not think that we need to point fingers or avoid certain leaders within the hobby because of one event. If it got repetitive, then I would understand, however, I think the Bummers planners as well as the division leaders are all intelligent people, that from what I know have pretty good reputations. I'm sure they will learn from what mistakes were made and move on from it. I miss my guess if we don't all attend whatever the next event is that they plan in the future. I think if people critique this event any more it has to be in the nature of constructive criticism and unique as well. It seems the whole discussion has been going in circles the last few days. That is just my opinion, I mean no disrespect to anyone on here.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: AAR Bummers

Pete:

I was the guide for 3rd Division. Although we will be putting out a statement from the event staff as a whole very soon, I want to address one issue. The 3rd Division never left the route that we were assigned - period. We will go into more detail in our report.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: AAR Bummers

I want to address one issue. The 3rd Division never left the route that we were assigned - period. We will go into more detail in our report.

I'll be very interested in the report detail. I hope the report will address whether it was known or not known the condition of the river road on Friday 13 November and then the reason why the officers of the Forgaing Parties were not given maps, nor given briefings on their route of march or the timetable to meet the event objectives on Saturday 14 November.

[Bob Minton]

Re: AAR Bummers

Hank-following up on a comment about route/maps/march--the route was awful as has been documented...BUT, as Bill Cross alluded to if it had only been the side hill then up hill march we would have been somewhat functional and intact as a division by 1 p.m. or so (I was in 2nd Division, Leading 30th OVI). The problem was our first water stop was empty and we were out. If we'd had a map locating other water we'd have been ok by 1:30 or so. Instead, we lost another 2+ hrs. give or take looking for water that was either mis placed or our guide could not find. This caused a lot of extra fatigue as we marched around looking and put us further behind. It also was the point where a number of 2nd Division made the decision to pull out for reasons documented, weakening us a good deal. Also, as Bill said, we were at the rear of the column, so we were following like lemmings, and in most places you could not get past the man in front of you it was that tight. We could only follow along hoping for the best.

I think the organizers ran a great event, so don't misconstrue any of my comments in any of my posts as questioning them or complaining. Just comments to hopefully be used for improving the next one they put on!!

I've enjoyed your comments!

Regards,
Bob Minton

[unclefrank]

Re: AAR Bummers

Who amongst us would like to be the unit Commander of more likely, the Orderly Sgt. who is informed that one of their guys didn't make it home... he fell asleep on the drive back, and in the back of your mind you can't help but think... was he one the fellows I put on Guard duty last night between 12 and 4?

I was lucky enough to serve under Mike Comer at Bummers. This was formost on his mind when our company was detailed with picket on Sat night. Most of us had a long drive after the the event. He worked out a deal to save us from a sleepless night. Thank you again Mike.

[Terry Sorchy]

Re: AAR Bummers

Mr Berezuk, 3rd Division WAS NOT LOST! We were late but we were in thew spot we needed to be. I was not told our route because that is the way it was planned. If you want to whine and complain then please do not do so out of ignorance of the situation. We foraged at the valleys we were supposed to. We found little food. We stayed Saturday night at one of our water stops. The river walk made us LATE not LOST. It was the foraging party leaders that thought we were lost when we were not. This Nancy Boy whining is getting ridiculous. You ever try to pull off an event in the wake of a hurricane. Mess 1 and the Armoury Guards did. When you walk in their shoes then you can complain.
I also know what men I am glad wont be in another division with me.
Terry Sorchy

[PetePaolillo]

Re: AAR Bummers

Mr Berezuk, 3rd Division WAS NOT LOST! We were late but we were in thew spot we needed to be. I was not told our route because that is the way it was planned. If you want to whine and complain then please do not do so out of ignorance of the situation. We foraged at the valleys we were supposed to. We found little food. We stayed Saturday night at one of our water stops. The river walk made us LATE not LOST. It was the foraging party leaders that thought we were lost when we were not. This Nancy Boy whining is getting ridiculous. You ever try to pull off an event in the wake of a hurricane. Mess 1 and the Armoury Guards did. When you walk in their shoes then you can complain.
I also know what men I am glad wont be in another division with me.
Terry Sorchy

Pete:

I was the guide for 3rd Division. Although we will be putting out a statement from the event staff as a whole very soon, I want to address one issue. The 3rd Division never left the route that we were assigned - period. We will go into more detail in our report.

Terry and Eric..Just so we can clear some of this up...Was it designed for us to go off Reservation property through a modern gate and pass a modern homestead and hunting camps? How come when the Foraging party leaders were finally able to look at maps, You guys were not able to tell them where we were?

No diresepect intended as I look foward to reading the organizers AAR. I hope these two questions will be answered. I am not complaining about the March...I enjoyed the Hell out of it as I told you both and thanked you as well. I am certaintly no Nancy Boy...I would have Marched all day and night like a good Private would do... BUT...leaders need to take responsibility when mistakes are made. I believe not saying you were lost is a revision of History.

And For the record this has absolutely nothing to do with the awesome effort in organizing this event nor does it have to do with taking an unplanned route through difficult terrain because of the flooding.. The AG and Mess No. 1 did an awesome job with this event. I loved it and felt a little of what it was like to live the life of a Soldier and I thank you all for that!!

[Michael Comer]

Re: AAR Bummers

As militia we waited a lot, and then we waited some more.

My most memorable parts of the event:

Friday night turning to give an order to my company as we marched and, after turning to the front, disappearing into a giant wash-out hole. I went from 6'2" to about 3'2" in a second. I was blessed that I landed on my feet with minor injuries to my shins. I could have really been hurt. Just couldn't see that hole on a moonless night.

Extremely good lads in the company. Pleasure to serve with them.

Being really angry at a cavalry commander trying to get us to run up a hill to support his men on Sunday morning. No way in Hades we were going to do that. Countermarching my company and leaving the cavalry on their own after hearing one too many insults of me and my boys from those CSA horse soldiers.

Having a 'gentleman' in my company who was always conniving to get out of serving in the militia. He railed about the illegality of such an organization, produced a deferment that was to get him out of service - forgot to fill in the blank with his name though, and even tried to bribe me while on the skirmish line waiting for Yanks on Saturday: "Captain, I know you're a professional man but of limited means..." I got a kick out of that one.

Dave Parent and Frank Perkins were great sergeants.

The trip with my Missouri brethren - felt like family.

And last but certainly not least - Foofus ( you had to be there)