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  • Re: AAR Bummers

    From my perspective
    Thanks Co 'D' 11th Gerogia Militia for me it was an Immersion Event


    Company ‘D’ 11th Georgia militia Captain Michael Comer commanding, a company being made up of boys and old men , myself being 57 years of age ,assembles at a little crossroads town outside of Molena, Georgia near Macon. Other companies begin to drift in as the regiment begins to assemble. By 10pm the battalion is ready for a night march, feeling for the vanguard of the Federal advance. The route we are to take is a farm wagon road, rutted and rocky winding up hill and down, the going is tough in the dark, but we move at a rapid pace towards the enemy .After a march of several hours, we make camp along the side of the road we are traveling .I carry an oil cloth and one thin blanket tied over my shoulder, my shotgun, belt, canteen and an empty haversack as rations have not come up. We are ordered to get some sleep, sleep on our arms: accoutrements on. the night is clear and cool, I suspect about forty degrees. Rolling up in my blanket I gaze at the brilliant Milky Way wondering what lies ahead, I think of my home and of the poor wretches who are in the path of Uncle ‘Billy’s’ wolves. Then fatigued from the march I drop off.
    The sound of men stirring and the low whispered orders of the sergeants awaken me before first light, I reckon it to be about 4am, it’s dark and cold, small fires started by the few who have meager rations twinkle about me. Water is located and canteen details head for the well. Someone comes around with a sack of goobers, goobers and water ,breakfast ..Better than nothing! Fires are put out, roll call, roll up my stuff and carefully place my clean dry socks in my blanket roll; I will save them for another day, and find my place in line. We march out towards the east, the sun still resting below the dark horizon.
    The route of our march takes us into the woods along these country wagon roads, I think to myself that this part of the state is primarily used for growing rocks, nothing but steep hills and red earth and rocks. We pass a small house the only occupants are women all of their men either in the regular army or dead. Along the route there are others carrying all their belongings in carts and on their backs, fleeing Atlanta and the path of the Federals. They camp in the woods or try to find refuge with relatives.. Mostly women and young children. We are cheered and offered some fruit and other edibles but it is evident this is all the sustenance these poor people have. Somewhere I guess around 10am we stop. In the distance shots are heard, one platoon of the company advances in the woods along the roadside in skirmisher formation, the lieutenant leading a detail advances ahead. Shortly the word comes back the road ahead is clear, just a few houses and civilians. The march continues at the route step up another hill, all these hills go up into the woods is there any flat land here? Relaxing a little the men strike up conversation discussing the merits and faults of Governor Brown, Jeff Davis, the Confederacy along with problems keeping the darkies in the fields and getting crops in. most of us feel that ‘Old Jeff Davis’ has deserted Georgia and left us to fend for ourselves .We are ordered to halt and deploy as skirmishers. Word has it the Yankees are about , where, no one is sure, The major arrives with orders from the Lt Colonel for company ‘D’ to break to the right of the road and man the crest of the hill overlooking a narrow valley, the federal s are reported to be coming that way looking for water and forage. Again off in the distance several shots are heard but no sign of the enemy. Crouched behind a tree on the downhill slope I wait and watch, observing corporal Donovan head down into the valley and up along the adjacent hill , after awhile some stretch out, some nibble ‘goobers’ or smoke, the morning wears on in boring silence. Nothing. This would be an excellent position to bushwhack the Yanks should they come down this valley but no such luck. Several hours pass and it is decided that we abandon this position and move further along the road.
    We form column and continue our trek thru the woods again, firing in the distance reminds us that we are here in defense of our homes. Again word is passed down that the Federals are nearby. We are ordered into line and up a steep hill probably a hundred yards to the summit, seems like straight up, pulling myself up by grabbing tree trunks I struggle to the top. We face left and fan out in a skirmish line from the base of the hill to the summit using tree trunks for cover we await the marauders. At the top of the hill running parallel to road below is another wagon road leading down to a crossroads of sorts where a few houses are located. We are deployed along the hill in sections, each section having watch for an hour then relieved by the next section. We wait in this position for hours; I almost drop to sleep in the warm afternoon sunlight several times. Relieved, we move twenty yards to the rear and catch some sleep, smoke or just wait around till we next go on the line. Hours pass. No sign of the federals, again random shots are heard but nothing comes of it. The colonel arrives back from conferring with the advance scouting patrol and orders the captains to form companies on the aforementioned road at the top of the hill.
    I am at the rear of the company with the sergeant and corporal tramping up the road, alongside we pass the first house populated by five women, some young some older , several families I think. We tip our hats as we amble by and continue towards the crossroads. Captain Comer drops back and orders Sergeant Perkins to take the corporal and two volunteers back and search the house we recently passed. We are told that some of these women may be disloyal and might be passing along information to the enemy concerning our numbers. We are looking for contraband withheld from our hungry men, maps or any other sort of indication that these may not be loyal Georgians. Myself, being one of the ‘volunteers’, (an old army friend once told me never volunteers for nothing, how true these words would soon be.) Maybe we can get some food after all, if it is offered we will not refuse. At the cabin the women wonder what we are back for and it is explained we have been ordered to have a look around. The ladies protest that they are Georgians whom we are sworn to protect. They are told to wait outside while we look around, one of the women protests loudly, the corporal physically, but gently, has to restrain her. A couple of refugees pass by as all this is going on, Some chickens are discovered hidden in a covered coup one of the boys eyes them and suggests we borrow one, but the sergeant keeps all in good order, finding nothing we are about to leave when one of the ladies uncovers a ham and wheel of cheese, suggesting we take a slice each, we see this is all they have and accept a small piece of cheese and hurry back to the column. As we form detail and march away the protester derides us for invading their home, Sergeant Perkins allows how we were ordered and did what we were told ,and how’s they would be thinking differently about us,if those blue wolves come through.

    Our detail continues up the road till we reach the crossroads where we expect to reunite with the company. There is some commotion here. The company is nowhere to be found except for a few stragglers who inform us that the company went up into the hills to our left. In the woods to my right I see some fifteen to twenty Yankee prisoners guarded by home guard and some cavalry milling about. There is a cabin at the intersection where some of the women refugees from Atlanta I suppose, have set up house. They offer us some pickles which are gladly accepted. I spy a well and we all head over to fill our empty canteens. Along the way back I enter into conversation with two of the prisoners who relate to me that they were cut off and surrounded by cavalry and captured. This accounts for the firing we had heard earlier during the day. Corporal Donovan sidles up to an unguarded table where a few sacks of salt pork wait for distribution, he nicks a piece as do I and head over to the stragglers from our company to find which direction the boys went. Suddenly, I her a voice behind me order me to place my shotgun on the ground and put my hands up, first thought this to be a prank, turning around Major Hicks who is pointing his revolver at me reiterates the order, the four of us are surrounded and we lay down our weapons. I am in a quandary as to what is taking place..Remember when I mentioned earlier my recollection of being told never volunteer? Well here is one good reason why!!!
    We are placed under arrest as shotguns are leveled at us. Sergeant Perkins demands an explanation. Major Hicks states that two civilians witnessed our raid on the helpless women of Georgia back at the cabin that we were foragers worse than the Yankees preying on the people we are here to defend. The sergeant protests loudly that we did no such thing, we were ordered by our captain to go back and search for contraband and see if the reports of disloyalty may be true. The Major counters that we were observed stealing their food and possessions. We are placed under guard and I’m now sitting in the pen alongside the federal prisoners I was just conversing with. We are being detained till a courts martial can be held. Protesting all the while, Sergeant Perkins demands we be kept in a better place than with this Yankee vermin; he demands that our captain be notified so he can verify our story. We are told to shut up and sit down, all this will be attended to. Now here we are facing death at the hands of our own men, what thanks we get for risking all for these people .An hour goes by, the captain arrives and is engaged in discussion with major Hicks over in the crossroads. Captain Comer departs as the major steps towards us , we are released, we are needed sorely on the line, this matter will be have to wait, we are allowed our weapons back and head off towards the rest of our company.
    Another walk up another hill brings us to our men; the captain welcomes us back and questions the sergeant as to what transpired. I find my place on the line overlooking the same valley a little further south of our first position. Again we wait. As daylight fades we are relieved by another company and March off back towards the crossroads, where we halt, receive orders where to make camp for the night, we, thankfully, are not on guard duty tonight. All the other companies are now in the same vicinity. After a short march we fan out on this desolate defoliated hill, fires are started blankets tossed on the ground marking each mans place for the night. Rations still have not come up; I have only a handful of goobers and some water. One of my comrades offers me a piece of hardtack and some jerky a feast in light of the food situation. I’m happy to have this in fact I save half the hardtack cracker for breakfast, this will be most likely all I’ll get. The day has been warm and clear, the weather good, as the sun sinks, the air begins to chill, going to be cool tonight. I decide to treat myself to that clean pair of socks; such small things in normal life are as great comforts out here. Removing my shoes which have not been off for days I rub my sore feet and slide them into the socks, now to see about keeping warm, I’ll leave my frock coat on and wrap my blanket around me like a cocoon. The night is cool and clear, the night sky is beautiful, and the stars shine bright, in the distance random shots remind us that the War is still here. We have not encountered the enemy except those few prisoners, but they are out there in force. Perhaps with tomorrow will come our real test?

    The day dawns bright and clear, the Captain allows the men to sleep till seven; I’ve been awake sometime now as the dew and the cold have penetrated my blanket. I roll up my blanket and cloth and walk over to the fire. Warming myself, I listen to the rumors and stories of the approach of the Yankees, some homes just east of here were torched and the occupants, women and children, thrown out into the night, their food confiscated. Joe Wheelers Cavalry is dashing about, these boys despise us militia and never miss a chance to make that known. They are an arrogant bunch, but as with us the only organized force left to oppose Sherman. Breakfast consists of some water and that other half of hardtack cracker I saved, a comrade somehow has made a cup of coffee and offers me a swallow, been a long time since I had a taste of coffee. Officers are called to a meeting down the road apiece, so we best be getting ready to move.
    Captain Comer returns, we form up and move south towards the reported advance of the Yankees. Passing by the house at the crossroads, the ladies wave, we then pass the Federal prisoners where I and three others had been so rudely detained yesterday afternoon. Cavalry are prancing around and dashing up the road and firing is soon heard off to the west, not far from the sound of it. We fall in and begin to march out up another steep wagon road. Cavalry races by. We are again halted and take to the side of the road. What is happening we hear the firing but yet we wait? One of Wheeler’s boys gallops up to our major and orders him to get some militia over to help his men hold back the Yankees, the major detours our captain to go with the cavalry. The mounted rider swears at us and orders us at the double quick up this long uphill trail all the while cursing us for cowards, the men are contemplating shooting him, who would know? Some fall out struggling up the long road, at the top we fall out in skirmish line in an open field moving towards another road at the end of it. The rest of the cavalry appears to be holding the line we are to take over but there is no enemy. What was all this rush and “we can’t hold” panic about? This cavalry trooper is but a corporal ordering our Captain about like some ‘darkie’ he owns, exclaiming to the captain they will be right behind us and “if any run we will shoot you down like dogs” As you can probably surmise we don’t take too kindly to this treatment but the captain maintains dignity. Comments are made as to the anatomy of the rear end of the horse in relation to its rider (A horse with two assholes) and we again wait on the line. Nothing in our front down this trail but some civilians. We are moved up along the road apiece where a house has been burned to the ground by Sherman’s bummers shortly before, but they are gone now, we halt and turn to march back the way we came.
    Going down the hill we cheer the captain for his remarkable calm in the face of those idiots. We are heading back towards the crossroads when we are fired on from both sides of the road by the Yankees. While we were chasing our tails on the orders of the cavalry the enemy attacked up the main road. Many of them are armed with sixteen shot Spencer repeating rifles, free the prisoners and cut us off. We fight our way past this ambush suffering many casualties and head at a run up the road. Again we are attacked. We fight and hold on as long as we can. We are surrounded and Captain Comer orders us to surrender, we are taken prisoner. Just as fast as it is over the rest of the regiment that had fallen back while we were on the wild goose chase appears charging out of the woods, most of the company is freed and escapes, but some of us are cut off and held. We are searched and any food they find they take, along with any items that suit them. We are held for awhile till their commander allows that he doesn’t want to feed us so we are paroled. We make our way back to our command; the battle is over for us for the moment. We will meet them again.
    Bob Hutton:)

    14th NC "Wild Cats"

    Comment


    • Re: AAR Bummers

      Originally posted by Terry Sorchy View Post
      Mr Berezuk, 3rd Division WAS NOT LOST! We were late but we were in thew spot we needed to be. I was not told our route because that is the way it was planned. If you want to whine and complain then please do not do so out of ignorance of the situation. We foraged at the valleys we were supposed to. We found little food. We stayed Saturday night at one of our water stops. The river walk made us LATE not LOST. It was the foraging party leaders that thought we were lost when we were not. This Nancy Boy whining is getting ridiculous. You ever try to pull off an event in the wake of a hurricane. Mess 1 and the Armoury Guards did. When you walk in their shoes then you can complain.
      I also know what men I am glad wont be in another division with me.
      Terry Sorchy
      The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!


      lost [lawst, lost] –adjective - having gone astray or missed the way; bewildered as to place, direction, etc.

      Mr Sorchy,

      I am not whining and I am not ignorant of the situation. I applaud the Armory Guards and Mess #1 for putting this event on and despite what occurred it ended up a sucess and I'll gladly go to another fo their events in the future.

      I served in the Marines, I have moved thousands of men and thousands of tons of equipment on foot, by vehicle, by ship and by air. I have a story of getting lost on the way to Baghad and I dispassionately evaluated that event and took responsibility for it because it was my command. So I haven't put on an event of this magnitude, but I have real world experience of the dynamic and requirements for moving bodies of men who have something more than powder in their cartridge boxes.

      Now, Jim Butler (sorry Jim) told me specifically that in the afternoon of 14 November (approximately 3pm) an officer's meeting was held and the map finally presented to the assemblage for the first time. He asked where we were on the map and the reply was that no one knew. That is the definition of 'lost'. Why the maps and brieifings of the route where not provided to you and your officers is the biggest, bone-head mistake I have known of. This is basic leadership and common sense.

      Now, why you simply accepted the situaiton and blindly followed is beyond me. I asked my foraging party leader Ken Giddons if he had a map or a briefing on the route. When he replied in the negative, I soldiered on without complaint and did my job as his Sergeant. I didn't abandon my men, nor did I raise a ruckus in the event. I respected the chain of command and made sure the men with me made it through to the end.

      You can call me a flaming arse, mean-spirited or just about anything you want, but I am absolutely certain the foraging party you were in command of was lost at that point and no amount of spin or revision can change that. This isn't 'Nancy-Boy Whining', I was evaluating the situation and I'm now calling out those who made the obvious mistake. How you choose to take it is up to you. I would hope you would man up to your mistake, but its obvious you don't feel you made any.

      Before I yield the floor, the real superstars for this event are Herb Coats, his lovely Bride, Rob Collette, Jordan Roberts and the others they dragooned to moving water and food from where we should have been to where we ended up on Saturday Night. My hat is off to them and I'll look forward to supporting anything they plan in the future and the next time I get to stand with them in the line.

      Good Day...
      Your Obedient Servant,

      Peter M. Berezuk

      Comment


      • Re: AAR Bummers

        I suppose I have a different perspective on the event than most of you. I served as quartermaster for the militia and spent the weekend in close proximity to the birthing cabin.
        I want to say to the gentlemen of the 11th Ga Militia that until about 2 hours before dark on Saturday I was under the impression that rations would be issued unprepared. I found out with nightfall coming on fast that I was to cook for 88 men. All I can say is that I put things together as best I could. I know the rations were sparse and some were still issued uncooked. I have heard no reports of food poisoning so I hope everyone survived. In case no one could tell that was my first time serving in such a capacity. Some of the troops did say thank you Sat. night and Sunday morning and that made my efforts worthwhile.
        After the event I walked out with Anna and Brandi thinking if these two ladies can make it then so can I. Fellas, I mean to tell you that those two lovely ladies are of strong stock. They were gracious enough to wait for this wheezing, gasping old man at the top of several hills.
        My hat's off to the organizers and all who had a part in putting on this event. I know you all labored long and hard. From the number of posts I would say you gave everyone a memorable event. I know it is one I will not soon forget. All you men who went up and down those hills countless times over the weekend have my utmost respect. I don't know if I could have done that 40 years ago and once on Sunday was almost too much for this old fart.
        It was good to see some old friends and put faces to some of the names I see often on this forum.
        Once again, thanks to Kiev, Herb, Robby, Jordan and all the Armory Guards and Mess # 1. You guys put on an epic event. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of it.
        Tom Dodson
        Tom Dodson

        Comment


        • Re: AAR Bummers

          Pete,
          Yes from what I understand the blue gates were a point that we had to go through. All the land we were was designated for us to use. No the leaders were not given maps, but that will come out later with the event coordinators AAR. Were there mistakes made yes. Were decisions made spontaneously yes. Were all of them correct no. It was pretty much like what happened to units time and time again throughout the war. Our divisions area was about three miles. Past that we run into other divisions so it was not like Piney Woods where we were 15 miles away from a road. The objective we were at past the blue gates should have been reached if all went right and the river didnt rise by 10 in the morning. If all went right then we would have foraged in both valleys that we did then turned left like we did got to our water supply like we did,(thats where we camped saturday) then headed down the road, had interaction with the civilians that we did on sunday, fought the militia like we did sunday and hooked up with 1st and 2nd divisions at some cabins down the road saturday night. Since it took us 5 1/2 hours to march to our jump off saturday we had no chance of keeping our schedule. The things we did on sunday we were supposed to do saturday. The only things you didnt get to do was camp with the other divisions saturday night.
          My apologies to all if you felt that I let you down. I think that with a recent hurricane that went through the event sponsors and all division commanders, foraging party leaders, and men did a fine job with what they had. Like I said I will leave the event sponsors fill in the blanks for the rest.
          Terry Sorchy

          Comment


          • Re: AAR Bummers

            Ok, I do not want to stir up the flames but wow, after reading some of the reports posted I wonder if I was at the same event.

            Were mistakes made, were there short comings; Of course. Nothing usually goes without glitches, and this event followed true to that maxim. Quite honestly, in spite of the issues dealt the planners by the hurricane, I believe they pulled the rabbit out of the hat remarkably well.

            Additionally, I never got the impression we were ever lost. Granted, I was not privy to the high level Officer gatherings of the 3rd Division as I was the ranking NCO for the 10th Iowa of said Division. Mr. Tipton took several of my comrades forward up the long and steep trail to the watering point. I spoke with him prior to their departure and he indicated that the trail would lead to a road where the watering point was established. Now, my thinking is for him to have known that this trail would lead to the watering point; he must have known where we were in relation to the point. Supporting that evidence is the fact that Kace came back with our canteens filled and lead us to the watering point. Further, I know Terry Sorchy well enough that if the Division was truly lost, with men needing water and food, he would have put the men first and event second. I never felt that the command was in harm’s way or that Captain Sorchy’s leadership was in question. He seemed well informed, knew where we were and had the situation in hand at every step of the way. Again, that is my perspective and mileage may vary per individual. I guess it all depends on where you are seated in the ball park as to how you see the game.

            To the men of the 10th Iowa, it was an honor and a pleasure to have been your ranking NCO. Even when the going was tough and good natured soldierly bitching took place, none of you ever shirked your duties or hesitated to do whatever Captain Sorchy or myself required of you.
            Michael A. Kupsch, 32°
            Grand Junior Warden, Grand Lodge of Kansas AF & AM
            Past Master Wyandotte Lodge #03

            [email]tatermess_mike@yahoo.com[/email]
            The Tater Mess
            The Widow's Son Mess
            WIG's
            [url]http://members.tripod.com/the_tater_mess/[/url]

            Comment


            • Re: AAR Bummers

              I had a right fine time! Nothing is better than being with friends and going through an experience like this. The 1st Missouri Engineer's may have been lost, a little hungry and maybe somewhat sore. We found ourselvs laughing at each dilemma throught it all and I had a great time.

              The only thing I can add to our fun was when we stopped to boil water and eat. Watching a snake chase a mouse on a fallen tree trunk. Our cheering got a little loud and distracted the snake to us and the mouse made his escape. The snake is probably still out there foraging and hungry!
              sigpic
              Grandad Wm. David Lee
              52nd Tenn. Reg't Co. B


              "If You Ain't Right, Get Right!"
              - Uncle Dave Macon

              www.40thindiana.wordpress.com/

              Comment


              • Re: AAR Bummers

                Snakes are good eatin'!
                Pvt. Bill Wimsatt
                Colorado

                Comment


                • Re: AAR Bummers

                  Wow, I gotta say this: Did we all attend the same event?

                  Observations from my chair in the shade ...

                  I never thought we were lost. I mean, we popped up on the hilltop next to the trail that led one way to a water drop and another way to the road we were supposed to be on. Was that some big coincidence? Doubtful. Once on a trail, we moved easily and we found places where fallen trees had been cut to allow us to pass. There seemed to be some issue of water not being where it was expected and that may have simply been a case of our guide being tossed into the spot at the last minute. As for not being able to point to the map and say "here we are" ... I looked at the map and had no clue where we were, why should anyone else? It did not correspond to anything I could see.

                  I never thought we'd gotten off the property. Yeah, we passed through a modern gate, but we never crossed the river, so how could anyone suppose we were "off the reservation"? Which of you knew the purpose of the gate or when it was erected? Perhaps it pre-dated the BSA taking over the property? Perhaps it was easier to leave in place than to remove? The fence was in complete disrepair, so it likely wasn't a property line.

                  I think the route chosen was a poor choice. The expectations of the men I was marching around were clearly spoken and climbing that hill wasn't it. Pre-event photos and information led us to believe we would be using existing farm/logging roads or ATV-like trails. This was my only real disappointment with the event.

                  Whoever was in charge of 1st Division failed to have someone collect their rations. They should have been looking out for their men better. I was at the officer's meeting and instructions were clear about how to get rations for the night.

                  The decision to let the men rest Saturday night was the smart choice. I had been questioning this aspect (posting pickets) of the planning pre-event, as the reading I'd done indicated that foragers went out pre-dawn and gathered forage back to the main road to be loaded into wagons as the column passed and then fell back in on the column. Getting cut off from the column and spend the night on their own did happen, but it was a recipe for disaster and avoided, not planned. So, from a historical standpoint, it was the right thing to do: act as if we were under the protection of the column. From a modern standpoint, it was about letting tired men rest so they could live the rest of their lives and come on this forum and bitch. Win/Win.

                  Some of you may recall the post-Piney Woods brouhaha about a missing tin pot taken from the wagons and owned by Charles Heath. I saw that tin pot this past weekend. I ate from it. The bastard that has it ought to be ashamed of himself.

                  Now, having run some events, I have to say that I saw event hosts working their collective ass off trying to make sure everyone was taken care of. That means everything from trucking folks out on Friday until dark to getting everyone through registration quickly and efficiently to adjusting plans and locations to get food and water to tired, hungry men to making sure the next day's activities gave everyone a chance to do what they had anticipated. I heard them shoulder responsibility and blame for any missteps without once shifting it to another party or some act of God or mistake. My faith in these fellows is as strong as it ever was and anyone who thinks they screwed the pooch needs to put on their own event.

                  I had fun. How about you?
                  Joe Smotherman

                  Comment


                  • Re: AAR Bummers

                    Originally posted by Terry Sorchy View Post
                    Pete,
                    Yes from what I understand the blue gates were a point that we had to go through. All the land we were was designated for us to use. No the leaders were not given maps, but that will come out later with the event coordinators AAR. Were there mistakes made yes. Were decisions made spontaneously yes. Were all of them correct no. It was pretty much like what happened to units time and time again throughout the war. Our divisions area was about three miles. Past that we run into other divisions so it was not like Piney Woods where we were 15 miles away from a road. The objective we were at past the blue gates should have been reached if all went right and the river didnt rise by 10 in the morning. If all went right then we would have foraged in both valleys that we did then turned left like we did got to our water supply like we did,(thats where we camped saturday) then headed down the road, had interaction with the civilians that we did on sunday, fought the militia like we did sunday and hooked up with 1st and 2nd divisions at some cabins down the road saturday night. Since it took us 5 1/2 hours to march to our jump off saturday we had no chance of keeping our schedule. The things we did on sunday we were supposed to do saturday. The only things you didnt get to do was camp with the other divisions saturday night.
                    My apologies to all if you felt that I let you down. I think that with a recent hurricane that went through the event sponsors and all division commanders, foraging party leaders, and men did a fine job with what they had. Like I said I will leave the event sponsors fill in the blanks for the rest.
                    Terry Sorchy
                    Terry,
                    I appreciate the response and enjoyed myself immensly. In fact I gained even more respect for what the common ACW soldier had to endure on a daily basis. Those expierences are why I do this... I especially enjoyed that unexpected and impromtu letter found on the contraband questioning my loyalty to the Union. I was very fearful that I would spend the rest of the weekend as a prisoner after that encounter and thankfully you were convinced that I being illeterate could not possibly write that letter..;)..As you know...I was a Union man through and through that weekend!!....With that said.......I just wanted to hear what happened, so things were more clear in my mind. I know more will come out and deep down I do not feel I missed anything. I did not feel let down by anybody. The March was kick ass....Some things are unavoidable......I am in total agreement with you that the organizers did a fantastic job with this event. The fact that the secondary and tertiary plans did not go great is unfortunate but they did what they could and I know that the Men were a primary concern of you and Eric and the rest of the organizers. They showed us that on Sat night. I do not question that.. I just wanted to hear what mistakes were made and what exactly they were. Hearing that we were not lost is just confusing. I will wait for the organizers report and finally I do not harbor any ill will or judgement toward anyone. Thanks
                    [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
                    ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

                    Comment


                    • Re: AAR Bummers

                      Originally posted by PogueMahone View Post
                      Wow, I gotta say this: Did we all attend the same event?
                      Nope. And that's why I think you and I would both agree this AAR process is important, whether it's bitching or praising going on.

                      As for not being able to point to the map and say "here we are" ... I looked at the map and had no clue where we were, why should anyone else?
                      Joe, it's my own personal opinion, from someone who has put on events, that keeping so much information from the party leaders (or at least their divisional commanders) was a mistake. Just as immersion events need a "911" code word for emergencies, events need someone who can step out of character if things go wrong and get them righted. And speaking of emergencies, the emergency telephone number we were given didn't work.
                      The decision to let the men rest Saturday night was the smart choice. I had been questioning this aspect (posting pickets) of the planning pre-event, as the reading I'd done indicated that foragers went out pre-dawn and gathered forage back to the main road to be loaded into wagons as the column passed and then fell back in on the column. Getting cut off from the column and spend the night on their own did happen, but it was a recipe for disaster and avoided, not planned.
                      You and I are veterans to this sort of thing and realize long drives are a real hazard for events that want 24/7 accuracy. To those who complain this is a farb-out, I would point out that the event was not entirely historically accurate anyway, but that events sometimes have to make compromises to come off at all. See Hank's point about reenactors being left the "junk" land (because the good land is occupied, farmed and therefore farby). Men in the ranks of the 2nd Division were saying as we marched up one hill and down the next "ain't gonna be no forage up on top of these hills."

                      Flat haversacks were also ahistorical IMO: the boys of 1864 were not out wandering the hills of GA hungry. But the organizers wanted to motivate us to go looking for food, so I accept that bit of psychological motivation. I remember how at "The Immortal 600" I attended as a Federal, so many of the guards were smuggling food to the prisoners that they were actually hoarding victuals because no one was hungry! I presume the organizers for "Bummers" felt we wouldn't forage as hard if we'd been fed.
                      Now, having run some events, I have to say that I saw event hosts working their collective ass off trying to make sure everyone was taken care of.
                      Agreed. Eric Tipton and Ken Cornett ran the march route 2x from what I could see. Marvin ("Black Joe the Guide") got a lot of shit from the rank & file who seemed to think he was leading us down the garden path when in actuality he was simply doing the best he could with faulty information. I tried to tell them this, but hungry, thirsty men don't always want to hear rational explanations.
                      Anyone who thinks they screwed the pooch needs to put on their own event.
                      Some of us have. I think you would agree pointing out mistakes is part of the learning curve, both for these boys and the rest of us.
                      I had fun. How about you?
                      I did, a ton of fun. But I had also lost 20 lbs prior to the event and carried my loaded knapsack on my daily walk for a month, so I did not find the exertion excessive, though it was taxing at my age. I was with dear friends and some bully guests who did their best with the adversity and acted like soldiers. I got to work with some fine people I had known by reputation, but never met (Tripp Corbin, Matt Woodburn, Terry Sorchy, Craig Schneider) and others I didn't know too numerous to list, but who took good care of their men, helped me when I was asked to take over the 2nd Division, and who seemed ready to make our fun where we found it. Individual AARs coming in to the RPs seem to show those who stuck it out Saturday had a good time overall.

                      But I was not there as "rear rank 2," and so some structural flaws in the event need to be addressed because there were real world consequences to those flaws: Case in point, I found out yesterday another one of my men went down with an injury that took him out on Saturday, along with the feller who sprained his ankle (the second injury was a hairline crack in his tibia sustained Saturday morning). I'm not "bitching" for myself, I had a great time. But someone has to speak up for those who didn't, since many of us beleive some of the event's major problems could have been avoided. Case in point, it was not an act of God that we marched down a road that had been flooded for days.
                      Last edited by Bill Cross; 11-19-2009, 11:19 AM. Reason: clarity
                      Bill Cross
                      The Rowdy Pards

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                      • Re: AAR Bummers

                        Not that it REALLY matters but I would just like to put a clear perspective on some of what bhutton reports in his aar 1st I was not a corporal treating your capt. like he was one of my darkies LOL I was the cav commander and if I am not mistaken the ranking Confederate officer on the field and so I was not thinking of y'all as my darkies but more as our "cannon fodder"!!! LOL also if had managed to get you boys up quicker you would have seen some fighting , of that I can assure you !! I was doing all of that in 1st person as I have assumed y'all were too, I have already sent a message to y'alls capt. explaining this action I hope this explaination is taken in the spirit in which it is offered but if not..... I personaly thought that y'all did a fine job in portraying Joe Browns Pets!! I as a commander of troops in the field found y'all to be MORE trouble than the yanks most of the time LOL Like I said I hope y'all are not pissed off with my treatment of y'all but if you are then you wont be the first LOL
                        Guy M Musgrove
                        Shannon's Scouts

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                        • Re: AAR Bummers

                          Originally posted by PogueMahone View Post

                          Some of you may recall the post-Piney Woods brouhaha about a missing tin pot taken from the wagons and owned by Charles Heath. I saw that tin pot this past weekend. I ate from it. The bastard that has it ought to be ashamed of himself.
                          And you did not retrieve the kettle or otherwise punish this malefactor? Please send me his name off-list, Joe.
                          Yours in The Cause,
                          Will Tatum
                          Lil' Bastid Mess

                          Esse Quam Videri

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                          • Re: AAR Bummers

                            On Saturday night, our mess renamed the event as, "Bunglers."

                            Getting together with my pards is always good, but beyond that, the event was mostly a wash for me. I guess it was because I had expectations that were extremely high.

                            "This will be a scripted scenario which will recreate actual historic encounters..."

                            Part of doing quality First Person is to start to actually think like soldiers of that historic time period would have thought and then would have acted in kind. I don't know of any documented source that identifies any foraging party of the 15th Corps leaving secondary roads during the first week of the march. Everyone in their respective regiments were counting on them to bring back decent forage. The overwhelming documentation of the first week of the march identifes that they brought back more than they needed.

                            The original forage parties went out early with a priority of getting back well before sunset so they could easily find their regiments that had been moving as well. If they were back with their regiments, did they need to post their own pickets?

                            My perspective tells me that an experienced officer in charge of a forage party during the third week of November of 1864 would have observed that the road was flooded and would have tried to find another suitable road. Not blaze a path that would not have been suitable for forage to be hauled back on.

                            Did forage parties actively push and/or attack militia or cavalry? Again, the overwhelming documentation says that they avoided this kind of activity like the plague.

                            Did anyone else who attended this event place as high of a value on HISTORICAL ACCUACY as our mess did?

                            Did we expect way too much going in?
                            Chip Uhlir
                            SCAR

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                            • Re: AAR Bummers

                              Marvin ("Black Joe the Guide") got a lot of shit from the rank & file who seemed to think he was leading us down the garden path when in actuality he was simply doing the best he could with faulty information.
                              At some point Saturday, I made the observation that we were either being led astray by that black dog of a guide or being led by a stray black guide dog, I wasn't sure which.

                              (For anyone not understanding, Marvin, our guide of African descent, was accompanied by a runt of a dog, black in color. It was unclear who was leading whom.)
                              Joe Smotherman

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                              • Re: AAR Bummers

                                Originally posted by PogueMahone View Post
                                (For anyone not understanding, Marvin, our guide of African descent, was accompanied by a runt of a dog, black in color. It was unclear who was leading whom.)
                                I believe the dog's name was Maggie, Joe, but the men of the 48th IL were calling her "Rations" by mid-morning. ;)
                                Bill Cross
                                The Rowdy Pards

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