Louisianian First Person

[PVT.THIB]

Re: Louisianian First Person

There is a huge Spanish influence just west of Natchitoches. In the 18th century, the Spanish had a fort, Los Adeas, only 14 miles west of present day Natchitoches. Most of the decendents of those people still live in the area of Zwolle and are a mix of Spanish and one of the Caddo nations of Indians. It would not have been uncommon to hear their particular dialect in and around Natchitoches Parish during the war. Would there have been Castilian Spanish? Most likely, but the Indian/Spanish influence on it would have been great. Hope this helps!

[Old Reb]

Re: Louisianian First Person

A 5th great grandfather of my wife was garrisoned at Los Adeas in the mid 1750s. Since the Spanish were experts at classifying people by blood, he was listed as Castilian. So, he probably spoke Spanish with a Castilian accent. But, as other have written, there was a great mixing with the native population (Caddo), so what the offspring spoke is questionable. Los Adeas was closed when Spain acquired Louisiana. The people were sent back to San Antonio. They were later granted permission to migrate to Nachadoghes in Spain Texas. They instead crossed the Sabine back to their original homes. Traveling on I-49 headed toward Natchitoches, you will see a flat, marshy area. Back before the log jam was removed from the Red River, there was a shallow lake there known as Spanish Lake and near it was Spainish Town. It was along that lake and near Black Lake that the descendents of the Spainish eventually resettled. They were very clanish and marriage to outsiders was frowned upon. Many of the names were changed by Anglo census takers that assumed they were French and now have more of a French or Anglo pronunciation than Spainish.

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Thanks Larry. Hey, how about the pronunciation of Bayou Boeuf, where Gov. Moore's (well, former Gov. Moore as of April 1864) plantation was located, and where the 28th Louisiana camped on March 9, 1864? Is it "buff", like a Frenchman would say?

Dan Hadley

I'd agree with Tom that the pronunciation is Bo'f, or in some areas, depending on the accent, Boo-f. Just the word, Bayou, has different pronunciations in different parts of the state. Here in the eastern Florida parishes and much of the rest of the state, we call them By-YOUs, down in the marsh country along the coast they're likely to be called By-Ahs, and in some of the other areas, By-ohs.

One thing we're overlooking in this thread is that so much of our language down here is not so much heavily influenced by French or Spanish, but by native Indian languages. So many of our place names are actually Europeanized pronunciations (and spellings) of native words. Many of the larger tribes in Louisiana spoke dialects of the Muskogean language (Choctaw, Houma, Coushatta, etc.) and its reflected in the names of our towns, rivers, and parishes.

Of course, they are never pronounced like they're spelled, either. Anyone want to try to pronounce two of our local rivers, the Tangipahoa and the Tchefuncte? :)

[Old Reb]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Atchafalaya and Calcasieu are two of my favorites for seperating the natives from the outsiders. Regardless, Louisiana is different in language, history, culture and geography.

[boreguard]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Larry your responses to this post are very well written and accurate. Being from Louisiana I cringe when I hear old movies or someone try and portray a Louisianian.


For those who might have an interest, Camp Moore is the only preserved site dedicated to organizing, arming, and training troops in the Confederacy. The museum is well stocked with some great artifacts, some on loan from Confederate Memorial Hall, and the grounds & cemetery are still pretty much undisturbed. The web site address is

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/c/o/cosby_w/

Y'all have fun at I.P.W.
Dennis neal

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Only an outsider would suck a crawfish head.

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Larry your responses to this post are very well written and accurate. Being from Louisiana I cringe when I hear old movies or someone try and portray a Louisianian.


For those who might have an interest, Camp Moore is the only preserved site dedicated to organizing, arming, and training troops in the Confederacy. The museum is well stocked with some great artifacts, some on loan from Confederate Memorial Hall, and the grounds & cemetery are still pretty much undisturbed. The web site address is

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/c/o/cosby_w/

Y'all have fun at I.P.W.
Dennis neal

Dennis,

I agree that anyone who is making the drive to IPW from east to west across south Louisiana should take the time to visit Camp Moore. I think it rivals any museum in the state for quality artifacts and well worth the trip over. It's a small site, but dynamite comes in small packages. I feel honored to have such hallowed ground in my own back yard.

I likewise cringe at fake Louisiana accents. Why does everyone in New Orleans on TV always sound like they're from Charleston or Savannah? Anyone ever see Bellazar the Cajun? Horrible accents.

[yipper]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Gents,

In Rapides Parish, where Bayou Beouf heads up, it is pronounced "beff", or at least it is pronounced that way today. In Saint Landry Parish, where the Boeuf joins the Cocodrie to form the Courtableau, it is pronounced "buff".

But how it would be pronounced by some cracker from Winn Parish back in the day is something else again...

regards,

geoffrey lehmann

[Kiev Thomason]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Blimey Fergus....eating snakes? How do ya cook 'em?

Ah! I've got it....you get 'em to swallow a ramrod and pop em on a loooooong fire...

A few years back we did an event in south GA and caught and cleaned a rather large Rattle snake. It was easy to clean and we cooked it up in some hot oil and added salt and pepper to taste and I will say...it was some of the best eating at an event I have ever had!

I will be federal for the event ...but you all have fun on the OTHER side.

[Old Reb]

Re: Louisianian First Person

Indeed, the 28th was no doubt made up of crackers of the best sort with Winn Parish being the cracker box. As for pronunciation schooling, it just can't be done typing, but only with hearing.

[Miss Elodie]

Re: Louisianian First Person

I'm jumping into this because I've spent lots of time informally studying the demographics of antebellum Louisiana. Regarding the accents of those portraying Louisiana soldiers-- chances are that you or your parents were from another part of the South or even "up nawth" and the accent would have developed accordingly.

By the 1830s there were growing pockets of "American" settlers in most of the areas that were ethnically French or Acadian--but they had been born elsewhere, particularly in Mississipi or the Carolinas, even Massachusetts and Connecticut. Anglo-dominated Northern Louisiana was much like Mississippi, East Texas, and southern Arkansas and, in the Piney Woods, was quite isolated and poor. They all were a large part of the Louisiana military. Also keep in mind that a significant number of Acadians chose to not join the army until forced conscription--many then either disappeared into the swamps or soon deserted (this isn't a snub, I'm directly descended from Acadians who joined up and those who didn't) and so even the South Louisiana units had significant numbers of "Americans" in the ranks.

Conversely, many different European ethnic groups who migrated to Louisiana in the late 18th and early 19th century, namely the Germans of St. Charles Parish, the "Foreign French"--recent arrivals from France, and several Iberian groups such as the Islenos of Assumption Parish tended to intermarry and assimilate into the non-American parts of the population. They fought too, but many would have spoken Louisiana French as well as their own language. Your best bet: unless you’re really comfortable with one of the “foreign” accents, is to be a regular Southern boy, albeit one with a taste for rice and brown gravy.

[CSchneider]

My results were similar to Jennifer's when looking at the Winn Parish census records. In 1860, less than 50% of the population had been born in Louisiana, and most of those were children. The majority of the adults had been born in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. A significant number also migrated from the Carolinas, Tennessee, Texas, Arkansas, and Virginia. Nearly every remaining state in the Union was represented in the parish, though in smaller numbers. There were a few French names in there, but not a ton. Aside from a few German and Irish families, virtually the whole parish was native born.

-Craig Schneider