Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

[lukegilly13]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

I was just reading through some old posts on here and I noticed that i typed "the tree still stands where the confederates surrendered." This was a typo....I was thinking where the confederates accepted the surrender of the federals. I repeat, the FEDERALS SURRENDERED...not the rebs. Sorry for the misleading info....it was truely an accident.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Gentlemen,

It is good that the members of the Wampus Cats Mess think their event is going to be a great event, but you all will have to do a bit more effort than posting on the AC to get living historians to come to it. That sounds harsh, but from behind my computer that is what I percieve.

You've been asked several questions about the historical basis, organization and logistical support for your planned event and very few of the answers have been complete. I am going to ask two more.

1) What safeguards do you have in place to keep your planned tactical as a historically accurate portrayal of Civil War events and keep it from devolving into a game of 'Cowboys and Indians' while wearing 1860's clothing?

2) Why does your planned event rise above the efforts of other organizations to host events in 2010 and is worthy of being recognized by the AC Event Committee as one of the six best events of 2010?

If you would like to have a more private discussion with me, I would be glad to take this to PM and email and offer my observations. At this point, your mess is giving the full court press to the living history community to get recognition, but you do not have a track record as a living history organization (i.e. WIG, Texas Ground Hornets, SCAR) and it does not appear you have fully planned or coordinated your efforts as of yet.

I am just one of the skeptics wondering why I should plan to expend my personal resources in support of your event.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

2.Yes,the original engagement took place in January.We are doing this in July for a few reasons:
A)Winter down here is bitterly cold,especially in January.
B)The July date puts us farther away from other events.

Out of curiosity, will you be pretending it's January in July as much as possible? For example, obviously not wearing greatcoats and scarves, but doing things like limiting food to what's appropriate for midwinter rather than midsummer, and expecting participants to use a January date for newspapers, letters from home, mention of current events, etc.?

Or will you be pretending the historic events happened in July rather than January, and if so, the July of the year before, or the year after?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[tenfed1861]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Seeing as this is the first event being put on by people who are barely out of high school,I'd like to say to all poo-pooing all over it to lay off a little.Please remember what it was like to put on your first event.Instead of attacking them and trying to shoot it down,why not ask them if you can help and make suggestions.All I see are "well,why aren't...".

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

That is well said Cullen.

I do want to point out these men are using words and phrases like...

'it should be a great event...'

'the event is shaping up to be very nice'

'Awesome'

They are putting few details out and are expecting this community to recognize them simply because of their energy.

I applaud their energy, but the constant bombardment of overly positive pronouncments and event campaigning without minimum details comes out as immature. Its the rhetoric/propaganda that the Wampus Cats Mess is putting out that is prompting a skeptic like me to question their event.

My recommendation to the Wampus Cats Mess is to dial back the rhetoric and focus on professional and correct communications for their event. If any of them would like a much more detailed discussion about event communications, I have the complete communications of three EBUFU events from the past two years as well as notes from first class event organizers about the process and pitfalls.

Lastly, if asking hard questions of event organizers and why attending their event is worth my time and money is 'attacking' then its time for the AC to fold up and everyone can join the mainstream and be the best dressed kids on sutler row.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

I'm going to ask the hard question, who are these fellows: Luke Gilly, Jesse Parsons, Chad Wrinn, Shawn Sturgill and Ryan Halsey.

By my asking who are these fellows, I'm asking specifically, have I, or any of the fellows that we know who sponsor most of the EBUFU events ever shared rations with any of them, or stood in the ranks with any of them, or perhaps more importantly - had them assist in putting on any previous events ? Luke Gilly seems familiar to me but I do not recognize any of the other names, other than from posts here on the forums. Where has anyone interacted with any of them before?

Why do I ask? Simple, as of yet, it appears that these young men are an unknown quantity with respect to event organizing, as such, I and several others who I have spoken off line to, are reluctant to commit to the 10+ Hr. one way drive without some kind of assurance it will be worth it. For most people, that kind of assurance comes from knowing the event planners have experience at what they are doing, or that the premise of the event alone is sufficient to really warrant consideration.

As mentioned in previous posts, the event promotion has been continuous, but the event details have been sparse.

And yes, I do have a one major concern, If the historical narrative the event is following, took place in January, why hold the event in June? I've done a pickett post event in Va. during the winter (and yes.. canteens froze) and I've campaigned at events were the high temp was a mere 17 degrees. Very few of us do not hesitate to campaign in the winter months (and there are several of us who actually enjoy the challenge). Why not hold the event during the winter and follow your historical narrative, or hold the event during the summer months, and either follow an historical narrative from that season, or state that it is a non-historical based tactical, and invite people to come.

[Chad Wrinn]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

I have backed out of the planning of this event for many reasons. One being the lack of experience of the host unit and their failure to let more experienced people handle it, Shawn's argument being it was his idea. I am in no way behind the planning of this event and do not know why I am listed as a coordinator for I have not agreed to support it unless more experienced people take it over. My plans were to have an event in February/January 2011 were the Independent Rifles and the Breckinridge Greys were to host it. But they would not listen.
As far as my experience goes,
Outpost 3
Pickets Mill
Race to Knoxville

As for the others, I can think of one event that one of them attended the event being Race to Knoxville.

[john duffer]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Cut the guys some slack Brian :) You're doing a March campaign in March but you're pretending Tennessee is North Carolina, They're doing an event on the original battlefield but pretending June is January.

For the original question, I'm not sure if they showed up or if I'd know them by sight, but I believe a couple of them at least registered for A Fighting Withdrawal .

[Haversack]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Not to insult anyone,but in the defence of our planning time.....they did Fort Sanders in April and they are doing Backwater in Tennessee.......and I do not see anyone on their case for this,so why are we being hasseled so much about our planning time?The July date least conflicted with other events being held and it is an elevated site,so an event in the winter would be COLD.And we are still working out some details,such as commanders and things of this nature.

[btfire]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Fort Sanders, unless I am mistaken, was held in April to not conflict with a mainstream event held on, or around, the original dates. I cannot speak for the Backwater planners, but I am going to assume their reasoning is land use. Yes, there is land available in North Carolina, but there tends to be something on it or reluctant property owners. Either situation results in not having the event. I can put my mindset, for a realistic scenario, into location warping. I can even mind warp the time aspect, but the weather should be similar. Doing October in April results in similar temperatures in many parts of the world, and in my experience, Tennesee also. There is no argument in saying, "They did this!" or "They did that!" That simply will not hold water. Please, continue to hype your event, but hype it with information that will make me WANT to drive seven hours.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Yes... Backwater is in March for a March Historical Narrative. Yes it is in Tn. vice the original location, and the event organizers have been right up front about that from the beginning. If any of the event organizers lived near, or had access to original land, we'd be doing it in the Carolinas, and not in Tn. This information has been laid out from the earlier posts an that event.

Event details and the experience of event organizers seem to be the primary areas of concern. Not their experience in attending events, but their experience in helping plan, organize and execute such events. It is the apparent lack of these two elements which are causing concern.

Pre-announcement, off the forums communications and coordination with prospective event participants is an exceptional way of pre-empting many of these questions/concerns that are being voiced here. In pre-announcement coordinating you often encounter many of the questions/concerns you've endured here. By working through these issues before pushing the event so strongly on the forums, you often disarm the skeptics from the very beginning. It also helps put your names out there as you start building your reputations behind the scenes as a group that knows what they are doing.

The July date least conflicted with other events being held and it is an elevated site,so an event in the winter would be COLD.

Concern about it being cold in January when the original historical event took place, as a reason to not do it during that time frame is not a very valid reason amongst many of us who would otherwise attend such an event. Planning the event date so as to be less conflicting with other events already on the calendar however, is very commendable.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Shawn,

You are getting some good advice from some folks that know what they are talking about. Pay attention. Get past being angry about the doubting questions. Contact Pete directly for the input he's offered.

As has been mentioned, you are something of an unknown in the larger community and people want to know that you have a plan, a back-up plan and an emergency plan for water, rations, ingress, egress, uniform guidelines, scenarios, etc. Before the event happens, make it a point to attend some of the other events getting the AC endorsement and introduce yourself to the event organizers. Even better, offer to help with onsite logistics rather than participate in an event. Learn the ropes, make some contacts and put together a plan.

You'll find things go much smoother.

And cold is not a deterrent. Most of us have been at events where it is cold. It is part of the experience of a Civil War soldier.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

The July date least conflicted with other events being held and it is an elevated site,so an event in the winter would be COLD.

Any answers to the questions I asked in post 18? I think that would help reassure people that this season-change has been thought through. Marmarduke's Raid was held in the fall, portraying events in the spring, and when I asked the civilian coordinator the same kinds of questions, she gave a helpful answer.

I'll second what Brian and Joe say. Saying that reenactors don't want to be cold during reenactments of cold-weather events ignores many successful cold-weather events.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[lukegilly13]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

Stop the panick lol!!!!!!
The event is being held in the summer because there our cattle on the wooded part of the property and sometimes the back field during the winter. It would still be good grounds for a small event in the winter but not for an event with the magnitude that shawn has planned. Also, our "in case of emergency" evacuation route is often inaccessible during the winter months. And we thought a summer event might be more practical and have more appeal to potential participants.
Give me a minute...there's much more to come.

[john duffer]

Re: Jonesville:Hell In Lee County

"Yes it is in Tn. vice the original location, and the event organizers have been right up front about that from the beginning. If any of the event organizers lived near, or had access to original land, we'd be doing it in the Carolinas, and not in Tn. This information has been laid out from the earlier posts an that event"

Not to get off subject but - I don't think anyone was saying trickery was intended, even the dullest blade in the box would have at some point caught on what state they were driving to :). I am surprised at the second part of the statement, especially on the AC forum. The ultimate implication is that it would have made just as much sense for Mess No. 1 to have done Lookout Mountain at Rich Mountain, Landrum could have done Sumpter at Fort Gaines or Petersburg instead of Vicksburg (Valley Forge for his Fort Donelson event :) ), etc.