.69's at Before the Breakout?

[CSchneider]

Going through the 45th Alabama's records I noticed a receipt from March 1864 for the regiment having turned over 138 .69 percussion muskets and 17 boxes of .69 ammunition. Does anybody have any information on when these weapons were first issued to the 45th? Were they issued as replacements for weapons lost during the retreat to Dalton or were they around earlier (and therefore should be represented at Before the Breakout)? Does anybody have access to the brigade ordnance reports put together by Andrew J. Rice, or at least know if they are housed at NARA or elsewhere? Some of the folks in Owens' Company have been talking about bringing our .69's along, but I'm interested to hear about what research others may have done first.

-Craig Schneider

[Coatsy]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Craig, I'll go through my notes and contact some others that may know too.

[Mississippian]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Since the 45th Mississippi of the same brigade is an obsession of mine, I have Capt. Rice's 1st Quarter '63 ordnance report right here....lets see.

March 5th 1863, issued to 45th Ala regiment,

335 bayonets
335 percussion muskets cal. 69
20 screwdrivers

March 18th 1863

133 Cartridge Boxes
287 Cap Pouches
101 Bayonet Scabbards
355 Waist Belts

March 26th 1863

4 Bayonets
4 Percussion Muskets, cal .69
236 Waist Belt Plates
6 Screwdrivers

Looking at the report, it looks like the 45 AL was the only regiment in the brigade not to have any rifled arms issued it. The other regiments got smoothbores as well, but also a few Enfields as well. Of course, you still have a few months between the report and the time frame we are portraying.

Will MacDonald

[David Mitchell Norton]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Note: I have no current documentation to back this up.

That said, I specifically remember doing quite a few living histories with the mainstream 45th Ala at Kennesaw Mountain around 2005/2006. During the demonstration, the Cpt at the time Shane Smith, spoke about the arms that the 45th carried through the war. I specifically remember him mentioning that the unit was originally equipped with .69+ calibers. However, at Dalton the unit was issued rifled muskets and turned the non rifled guns in to the quartermaster. Now, here is the interesting part. Supposedly around the time of Kennesaw Mountain (actually a couple days before) the unit requested they're .69s back (or at least a couple companies did) because in the close combat they expected to be in buck and ball was much more effective.

Like I said I cannot support this tid bit. But if someone had the contact information for Mr. Smith, there may be a link to documentation.

[DBAR1918]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Dave:

Were those Rifle Muskets or Rifled Muskets? As you know, rifled muskets are smoothbores converted by later rifling. Those could be Model 1816 or Model 1842 muskets with or without sights. As you know, I have a Model 1842 Rifled Musket with long range rear sight, etc, that shoots either an elongated ball, buck and ball, or buckshot. Kinda like a Navy Plymouth Rifle Musket. I too am looking forward to hearing what they actually carried so I can make sure I bring that.

Dave

[David Mitchell Norton]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Hey Dave,

Not really sure about the types of rifles used. I am trying to remember what Shane said during those living histories, I seem to recall 1842's. But again, Shane Smith is the one who could really help this discussion. I wish someone had his contact info.

[Mississippian]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Dave, David.

If I was a betting man, I would think that the guns issued at Dalton were .54 cal Austrian Rifle Muskets. I know some were issued to the 32nd/45th Miss around that time because I started to see requisitions for .54 ammo in the spring of 1864. And who knows what the 45th Alabama could have picked up off the Chickamauga battlefield. Honestly, I can never recall seeing a requisition for rifled .69 cal ammo in a AOT/Army of Miss ordnance report.

Will MacDonald

[Charlestonian]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Gents,

Some info from Soldiering in the Army of Tennessee by Larry Daniel that might help with the arms question.

"In May 1863 Hezekiah Rabb of the Thirty-third Alabama informed his wife that 'our Regt & the 16th Ala Regt are all armed with the very best guns. ... We have Spring Field and Enfield Rifles.'" p. 45 [These two regiments where brigaded along with the 45th Alabama.]

"An April 1863 report revealed that 44 percent - 16,570 of 37,232 - of the arms in Bragg's infantry were short-range smoothbores. Fortunately, at least for the sake of ammunition supply, all were .69 percussion smoothbores - the old mainstay of the Army of Tennessess. Another 37 percent were Enfields and 14 percent were Srpingfields, the balance being miscellaneous calibers." p. 45-46.

"The Confederate victory at Chickamauga in September netted and additional 8,008 rifles (about 60 percent Springfields and the balance Enfields). " p. 46

"Brigadier General Bate reported that his brigade 'went into the fight with [smoothbore] muskets in the hand of one-third of my men, but after the first charge Saturday evening every man was supplied with a good Enfield and ammunition to suit." p. 46

I know its not a definite answer and probably further muddies the waters, still thought it might help.
Regards,
Dan Gidick
Palmetto Guard

[Coatsy]

Re: .69's at Before the Breakout?

Dan, thank you! You were quicker to post this than I was. Been busy lately.