150th Cycle Meeting

[Mcouioui]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I totally agree, be around a table to discuss and plan good events for us all, we shall answer the call, even of the other part of Atlantic.
We live effectively historic time, the authentic movements get closer in Europe and one already proved that they were there to share with you, we shall never be 200, but we shall be there...

[North_State_Rambler]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Mod hat on:
To those in the latter group, please refrain from posting on this thread. Mods are ready to edit, prune, delete, and lock.

By which you mean you are ready to squash any free expression of thought that doesn't match your own opinions?

No - It means we are ready to squash anyone with no higher goal than to be the turd in someone else's punchbowl. If you have a question for a moderator, next time I highly recommend you take it up off-line from the open boards.
John Wickett - Moderator.

[Moose]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

All,
I feel some people are asking questions about said meeting because they are confused (myself included) as to why there was a post made about the happenings at the meeting?

We all know that there are different sides to this hobby, and for that reason, people are asking at which level of our hobby was this meeting aimed at? My hat is off to anyone who is planning something for the 150ths, no argument there, and I am sure there are other groups out there trying to plan events too, but why the need to be so secretive? The meeting makes things sound like some secret club meeting of reenactor organizers who will put out events for you to attend. I am not saying that the persons at the meeting want their detailed plans out there, understood its 2009, but why divulage any information at all then? If the meetings were not open to all, which they shouldn't be, too many cooks spoil the soup, then I ask again, why divulage any information?

The hostility is comming from the fact that some people are asking simple questions, like, what organizations attended the meeting, and they are not being answered. I feel the reason for no answer is the politcs in our hobby. Fine, politics aside, if your event is good, and offers somthing to people, they will come. On another forum someone asked the question of how to get an invite to said meeting, and received no reply. So my guess was that it was a closed meeting for brian-storming purposes among a group of people who had previously worked with each other. Which, once agian is fine. But the fact still remains, that meeting was secretive, yet it was annouced. Plain and simple, just asking for trouble.

Cheers,

[PogueMahone]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Caridi's comments are spot on.

Inquiring minds want to know ... more. Is there an objection to that?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Hallo!

Moderator hat on...

"By which you mean you are ready to squash any free expression of thought that doesn't match your own opinions?"

By which I mean to discharge the duties and expectations placed upon moderators by the site owner and the site administrators, until told otherwise or relieved of those duties I agreed to perform.

This is not a public board, but rather a private one where membership and posting privileges are extended by the site owner, and where the expectation is held that members follow the rules, guidelines, and culture of the AC Forum.

Curt

[Jeremy Bevard]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I’m going to throw this in here for event planners to see.

I would love to see a series of events during the 150th that would follow a regiment through the war. So for one event for each of the five years we would have the same impression.
For example:
16th Michigan
1861 – Muster in
1862 - Antietam
1863 - Gettysburg
1864 - Spotsylvania
1865 – Five Forks

I think this would be the ultimate research and first person experience over a five year span.

[Auld Pelty]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

My votes are events for the anniverseries of:

1) Sabine Pass

2) Fredricksburg

3) Fort Pillow April 12, 1864

4) Mansfield, LA

5) Second Battle of Ft. Wagner

6) Chickamauga

These battles span all the theatres of the war, except the Atlantic Ocean.

[Spinster]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

A whole lot of folks know that I will travel a long way for a history heavy, high standards event.

And I'll go a pretty good distance for fresh funnel cake and an anvil shoot, if the event fits my schedule, and it looks like fun. :tounge_sm

Based on personal observation, Mr. Anders did a decent job of land and logistics last June in Gettysburg given the limitations of the site chosen.

But I do hope in all this fine five year planning, that the civilian side of the planning will not be as dismal as that At High Tide. Had I made a special trip that far, I would have been pretty mad.

[Hardtack Herring]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I would like to see a quality 150th event on the Virginia Peninsula.

[tmdreb]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Tom,

Perhaps if you had any experience with planning events, your opinion would have been considered. Oh wait.....

[Charles Heath]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Posting the minutes would end a whole bunch of BS.

Notes from 150TH CYCLE MEETING
21 March ’09, Winchester, VA


PRESENT:
Michael Schaffner, USV
Doug Dobbs
Victoria Kent, civilian coordinator
Laurel Scott, civilian 7th MD/Eastern Charity Society
Dave Pridgeon, Shenandoah Legion
Bill Russell, 47th VA Co. I/Longstreet Corps
Kevin Myers, PSL
Matthew McLaughlin, CVG (Adjutant)
Chris Anders, CVG (C.O.)
Bob Minton, Army of the Ohio
Curtis Utz, CMF
Jeff Stepp, Carolina Legion
Mike Wenger, Carolina Legion
Todd Harrington, civilian/wet-plate photographer
Greg Churchill, CMF (Adjutant)
Mike Lavis, Army of Ohio
Robin Keller, civilian III PVI

OTHER GROUPS INTERESTED (PER ANDERS):
New England Brigade
Mifflin Guard
3rd USV
1st Pa Arty
Western Brigade
Federal campaigner splinter group from FVB
1st Maine Cavalry
Valley Light Horse


1. Brief Analysis of Spotsylvania Event Breakdown

Pridgeon: Broke cardinal rule: If you commit to an event, don’t cancel it — revamp it

Anders: New organizer, lack of good advice/guidance, lack of sweat equity/support

Need to encourage new event organizers to “step up” — goes back to the reenactors
taking ownership of the hobby, re: everything from sweat equity to giving advice

Suggestion: can we reach out/connect with this organizer — who apparently has initiative, energy and a lead on prime ground — and help him or get him involved?

Need to think of these events as opportunity vs. “pulling away” from them

Anders: Perhaps we can share an event “resume” — sample schedule, etc. — to help keep events like this from going under? Greatest opportunity is w/events like this that have new organizers

Kent: Reminder that we need to build bridges without taking on everything

2. Common Ground/Defining & Providing Ideal Civil War Experience

Why We’re Here/Philosophy Behind Events

Pridgeon: Re 150th — need to develop circuit on our own. Doesn’t want to be limited to what’s currently out there. “We’ve got to provide ‘magic moments’ for our guys, and we can’t count on someone else to do it — we have a lot of talent between our organizations.”

“Authenticity without attitude.” Living up to our reputation – cutting commercial element out sets us apart. “Once it’s about profit, it’s not about reeanctors.”

Anders: It’s about the Civil War and providing the experience that soldiers actually had — “and you’re not going to get that standing in line at a funnel cake stand.” Also: “You can’t make everybody have a good time, but you can set the stage for everybody to excel.”

Need to focus on reenactors and their investment — thus, the latter must take ownership and get involved/sweat equity in order to reap maximum benefits

Number/Type/Size and Timing of Events

Lavis: Need 1-2 good battle reenactments avoiding twin extremes of hobby (funnel cake events/extreme H.C. attitude). Reiterated need to deliver at least one big event a year to his troops.


Anders: Would like to see:
- a good battle each year with decent numbers
- annual fun tactical

Chris added that a minimum of 5-600 people are needed for a good battle scenario; can control up to about 2,000 on field as proven through prior events and with an expanded team can work towards higher levels.

IDEAS:

1. Offer “buffet” of events of varying sizes with specific goals (living history, tacticals, battles) such as offered in 125th cycle (before events became increasingly about making money/lost focus on history). Perhaps the goal for each year should be one big “fusion” event (like September Storm) and one smaller “campaign” event — maybe another Recon, too. 1865 could be “bonus” year (since anniversary reenactments would end in April, the rest of the year is available for anything).

2. No more head-to-head conflicts with mainstream mega-events. Focus instead on “complementary” events that cover engagements before or after the majors (e.g., South Mountain, Falling Waters or Mine Run). Ball’s Bluff also mentioned as a possibility (exception: Antietam – Anders)

3. Need to consider where we want to go with numbers without compromising standards. Idea of “controlled growth” vs. idea that the 150th events are likely to be big, and we shouldn’t scale back if we want to grow the hobby. Plus, as Anders pointed out, none of the “big” 150th events have been claimed yet — perhaps we shouldn’t be afraid of claiming them first?

4. If boosted attendance is anticipated, Pridgeon suggested the idea of “core battalions” to provide event support and logistics: in lieu of leaving event organization to one individual, having entire units sign onto the cycle and agree to take responsibility for one of big events (including site selection, website, workdays, and registration, with more distant folks contributing in other ways).

5. Consistent IDs for at least some of the units throughout the weekend, so they can enjoy/wallow in first person. Also use opportunities to develop training ground for guys in field — line functions — break down blue/gray wall, build teamwork/make both sides equally proficient

6. Think about a four or five-day event, with primary action on weekend but with secondary activities that start on Thursday and end on Monday

7. Exploit the ground for movement — i.e., camp a different place on Saturday than on Friday (not for everyone, offer camp of convenience for those that require such at larger events)

8. Retain current fee structure, with donations to preservation


Ground
Anders: Issues/problems:
- liability
- development (“the final crop”)
- events coinciding w/growing season on cropland
- beef cattle & reenactors not a good mix (fences)

PA property for Return to Manassas ideal because it’s charity-owned, can do anything to it

Need to start making list of possibilities and find contacts for good ground!

Possibilities mentioned/places that have worked before:
- Hope’s Campaign property
- farm on which Gods & Generals was filmed
- wildlife management areas
- DC area properties
- South Mountain battlefield
- Port Republic/Cross Keys
- McDowell
- Fisher’s Hill
- Third Winchester
- Camp Allegheny
- New Bern
- Military bases that have hosted WWII reenactors — Ft. Belvoir, Quantico, Ft. A.P. Hill?
- James River property (for Peninsula Campaign)

Pridgeon: Noted how Shenandoah Legion has worked to build rapport with community to secure sites like those for McDowell, Port Republic and Kernstown. Building long-term relationships (going beyond single event) is important

Possibility of more distant events should not be discounted, but teamwork on site needed, as discussed before, re: “core battalions”


Civilian Component

Kent: Important to consider civilians more as counterparts than accessories/afterthought — particularly when selecting ground for camps, etc.

Need justification/reason for civilians to be there in events larger than 500 people and suggested that military reenactors start educating themselves about the “other side” so they can educate their wives/S.O.s

Period towns like those at Perryville were cited as ideal, allowing for laundry, mending, stable/harness repairs, etc. (authentic civilian scenarios) as well as the possibility of “meaningful interaction” with the soldiers. It was noted that in at least one case, the town was constructed for that purpose by civilian groups. Canvas augmenting existing structures also proposed as an alternative.

Less structured “refugee” scenarios also drew support.

Need for military reenactors to point their civilian counterparts to good sources for researching authentic impressions:
- Atlantic Guard Soldiers’ Aid Society
- The Sewing Academy (online forum)
- Juanita Leisch’s book Who Wore What: Women's Wear 1861-1865

Need to get civilians to “talk to each other” in absence of centralized civilian organization.

Since civilian standards (re: ballgowns in the field, etc.) are hard to enforce, perhaps a “threshold activity” is necessary to weed out the less dedicated civilians?
Anders & Kent: This idea less feasible for larger events, OK for smaller ones

Kent: Inappropriately dressed civilian women harder to deal with than male counterparts, as there is no “loaner” clothing for them. Also potential repercussions in ranks when they are kicked out/sent home

Anders: A fine line, re: enforcing civilian standards — reputation as double-edged sword: Don’t want group to be viewed as snobs, but not as pushovers, either — “draw line in sand, but not in negative manner”

2. What’s Worked and What Hasn’t in Past Events

Burkittsville: civilian aspect worked well because town in place

McDowell: Anders: Good example of EBRFR with good civilian component on original ground
Pridgeon: Developed concept of leadership that is totally separate from military leadership — “event czar” for weekend. This person is responsible for and empowered to make the hard decisions, like canceling a battle if the weather gets dangerous. Highly recommended.

Also championed individual registration over unit registration — goes to accountability, re: rules, etc.

Pioneered ration issue and all that involves

Proved “linear” events can be done if organized

To the Gates of Washington — good when “dead stayed dead” (survivors rifled through ammo, etc.)

September Storm: Scripted scenarios were the best at this event; also good scale and best flow

At High Tide: Anders: Confederate reenactors outnumbered, requiring considerable recycling. “Tough” — concerned about their health in heat — but it worked; “made huge impression.” Speaks “volumes” about need for soldiers to prepare physically for events

Ground not scaled ideally for numbers of soldiers, w/exception of Wheat Field. Biggest disappointment: cancellation of night fight due to storm

Ambulance corps deemed a “great addition”

Online registration setup worked well; sent registrants to rules & regs page/must click “agree” to proceed to form. Then rules & regs appear again at sign-in table – reinforcing “individual accountability”

Ambulance on site worked well — working with volunteer ambulance groups best way to go — find out how much to donate in future


Misc./Infrastructure Notes:

General battalion concerns:
Location
Size
Scale (ratio of people to available land)

Keep scripts simple, short and clear

Best people to advertise event are men in the ranks, so keep men in battalions informed about standards, goals, etc.

The sponsor battalion leadership must focus on the men to make sure they are having a good time and that the event is worth their participation

Water logistics important – also making sure there’s a water buffalo on each side wherever there’s a stopping/staging point

Joint walk-throughs on scenarios are KEY; make blue and gray a “team in the service of history.” Remember that introducing participants on individual level can help facilitate unusual actions such as hand-to-hand combat and flag captures without fear of casualties

Communications: Essential that both commanders maintain direct radio contact during battle; little radios work best. Period techniques can be used, but should be secondary.

Ration issues work and can save money, but must be decided 8 months out

Need to plan Sunday battles early in day so we have full strength going into battle (vs. soldiers heading home). Money lost, re: spectators will not be an issue if our funding is based on reenactor registration fees and sweat equity/personal ownership

Re: Food — Anders would like to see church, civic or preservation groups make the $ here

MEDICAL:

First aid/CPR certification — Kent recommended getting event staff and/or one person in each company certified through the American Red Cross and renewing certification annually. Helps when working with trained EMTs; also enables those in ranks to spot potential problems (i.e., heatstroke) before they occur. Red Cross certification reportedly provides Good Samaritan Law protection for graduates operating across state lines.
Anders: Job for 2nd or 3rd Sergeant? Offer to slash registration fee for registrants with proof of certification?

ALSO: Encourage soldiers to put medical data cards on specific color cards in tool pouches or cartridge boxes (also in consistent place, so can be found easily). Remember to include food allergies. Perhaps make this a part of event rules and have sergeants who inspect cartridge boxes check for cards at same time

Summary of Needs/Wants Identified to Date (per Anders):

-Good scripted fights (keep people from getting injured)
-Registration/personal accountability
-Areas where improvement needed:
 Civilian aspects
 Ways to integrate first-time units, re: standards, rules
 Idea of “reenactors in charge” (i.e., 125th Cycle)
 Commander control/more accountability/authority in command structure, remembering to “bitch up the chain, but not down” and hold sergeants and officers’ meetings to that effect before each event.

Reminder from Pridgeon: rather than complain about state of hobby, they “built their own sandbox” to better their experiences. Anders: Key is to invite others to “play in the sandbox” if they agree to abide by our rules — do best you can for the majority. “Honey vs. vinegar” approach works best; glean something from every experience
3. For the Future
Anders: Overall goal is to form group that can not only put on events, but attend other events as a group and present a united front as educated, discerning consumers (which could have the effect of improving other events, too).

Next meeting set for August 22, 2009 in Winchester. Goal: to update the Common Sense Resolution and start firming up events.

FINAL IDEAS, RE: POSSIBLE TIMELINE, ETC.:

1) Kick off the 150th cycle with an 1861 “militia muster” featuring substantial civilian participation, perhaps at Harper’s Ferry or Appomattox — smaller trial run?

2) Participate as a united group in the inevitable mega-First Bull Run

3) Start the battle cycle with Balls Bluff/Big Bethel/Dranesville

4) Pridgeon offered to take the lead on 2012 scenarios for the 1862 Valley Campaign in McDowell, and in 2014 for Third Winchester in Kernstown (where some 600 acres are being preserved). He further noted that Virginia has appropriated $5 million for sesquicentennial celebrations. Need to go to each county’s committee and work w/ them — receive state funding. Anders is putting on a Maryland Campaign in 2012 and possibly a Monocacy in 2014.

5) Maybe offer a discount for “season ticket” buyers who register for both or all three sponsored events in a year

6) Include in the Common Sense Resolution a standard of minimum numbers needed to support a company or battalion and the various ranks (probably event-specific)

7) Other options discussed: Chancellorsville, New Bern, Wilderness, a return to Saylor’s Creek in 2015, NPS Gettysburg ’63, participation at Perryville, and trying to get at least one major tactical in every other year (less burnout)

8) Pull civilians together — girlfriends/tag-alongs, etc. — TEAM WORK


The meeting ended with pledges to spread the word and reconvene in August.

[Spinster]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Thank you Chawls--I had no clue as to whether the copy I had was considered 'available for public viewing'.

So now I can say what I thought: Too bad there aren't current AGSAS officers listed on that meeting list.

[dusty27]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Thanks very much.

That's all I wanted.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

THANKS!!

PRESENT:
Michael Schaffner, USV
Doug Dobbs
Victoria Kent, civilian coordinator
Laurel Scott, civilian 7th MD/Eastern Charity Society
Dave Pridgeon, Shenandoah Legion
Bill Russell, 47th VA Co. I/Longstreet Corps
Kevin Myers, PSL
Matthew McLaughlin, CVG (Adjutant)
Chris Anders, CVG (C.O.)
Bob Minton, Army of the Ohio
Curtis Utz, CMF
Jeff Stepp, Carolina Legion
Mike Wenger, Carolina Legion
Todd Harrington, civilian/wet-plate photographer
Greg Churchill, CMF (Adjutant)
Mike Lavis, Army of Ohio
Robin Keller, civilian III PVI

OTHER GROUPS INTERESTED (PER ANDERS):
New England Brigade
Mifflin Guard
3rd USV
1st Pa Arty
Western Brigade
Federal campaigner splinter group from FVB
1st Maine Cavalry
Valley Light Horse

The above list shows the reality, which was previously addressed on the forum...where is the representation from this FORUM? If we don't have the membership on this forum come together to consolidate some representation...then we'll have no dog in this fight...we'll be left to pick from a list of larger events in which we have no hand...this list has no representation from the Brothers/Sisters in the Deep South/West...and suprisingly, no representation from the SWB, units of the former IVR...etc.

Rally for Representation??

Paul B.

[jake.koch]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I am just asking, and not in anyway trying to stir trouble, but is there any similiar type of planning tht anyone is aware of for the Western Theater, or even the Trans-Mississippi?

I doubt that I am the first to have this idea but is there perhaps away for people from the East, the West, and the Far West to get together somewhere and correspond schedules in order to avoid conflicts between possible authentic events. Otherwise times such as May of 2014 are going to compete between the push into North Georgia and the Overland Campaign in Virginia. There are certainly many other instances, as we all know.

It sounds like the East is being taken care of but what about events in the Western Theater. If there are corresponding events in each theater competing for numbers it probably won't bode well. Once again, like I said in an earlier post, I am just really looking forward to the susquicentennial, and would like to see our side of the hobby grow.