Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

[elcid01]

Gents, if you have any images of Mississippi officer uniforms or ranks please post. There is lots of talk as to what the officers of the 2nd were wearing. Just wanted to get a thread going on this. Another thing, is that i plan on reproducing a pair of crescent Cols shoulder straps so if anyone has the image of the COl wearing a pair on a DB frock please pass along.

Several accounts on uniforms with the 2nd but there are few images. Bottom line looks like of the images and accounts we have at this stage there was NO standard. Everything from outrageous uniforms (Company commander) to plan homespun green trimmed uniforms (LT COL). we also have the regs for the state.

thanks,
skip

[Silas]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

All the below photos are featured here : http://webspace.webring.com/people/v...ier_photos.htm which is a page about the Battle of Fishing Creek / Mill Springs. All soldiers and the two officers below are from the 15th Mississippi. Uniforms are very early in the war, but I do not know whether the black stripes across the front or three rows of buttons are appropriate for any of the Mississippi units at Manassas. People who've researched it would have a better idea.

I'd seen these photos before and knew I could find them easily. I was hoping to find a photo of the Mississippi colonel with the half moons on his sholder boards instead of Federal eagles. Wasn't able to locate it online. Might be in Echoes of Glory.





Pvt. Thomas J. Shuler
Co. A, 15th Miss. Inf.
Killed at Fishing Creek



Lt. John B. Love
Co. A, 15th Miss. Inf.



Pvt. Henry A. Moore
Co. F, 15th Miss. Inf.



1st Lt. Elijah Young Fleming
Co. A, 15th Miss. Inf.



Pvt. Asa E. O'Neal
Co. E, 15th Miss. Inf.



Pvt. Jefferson Ellis O'Neal
Co. E, 15th Miss. Inf.



Pvt. Miles N. Hines
Co. I, 15th Miss. Inf.



Pvt. Lafayette Pollard
Cos. E & I, 15th Miss. Inf

[coastaltrash]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Silas,
That is more than likely NOT black stripes across their uniforms at all.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Here is a photo of a unidentified Mississippi noncommissioned officer. Note the rank, collar (possible stars), and possible secession cockade.

All the best,

Andrew

[elcid01]

Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Silas, thanks for the pics. One thing I notice is that in the regs it calls for is very similar to what the LT with straps is wearing. It calls for black facings on the collar and cuff with dark blue for the straps. There is a picture of a COL in the crescent moon straps. Looking through various sites and my portraits of conflict Mississippi and no luck.

If you look at the 2nd Miss website LT hovis is also wearing something similar to the regs

Skip

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Hallo!

IIRC...

Did not Mississippi regs initially call for "branch of service" for infantry to be "crimson?" (Appearing black in Period images).

Curt

[Silas]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Sounds like the color wasn't black. I posted the photos just before I went to bed and did not think about color of service or regulations. Not claiming expertise on early war, Mississippi uniforms. I knew where I could quickly locate photos and posted same. I'll leave it up to the experts to discuss color of trim, type of cut, size of stars, shape of hat, buttons verses trim and et cetera.

[Iceman]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

The State Military Board for Mississippi first said that Infantry were to wear red as their branch of service, then green, then finally blue. Although I have never seen the book, Grady Howell's book called "For Dixie Land I'll Take My Stand" is said to be the best resource on Mississippi Confederate photos.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

My copy of For Dixie Land I'll Take my Stand is currently in the hands of Matt Woodburn, and a lot of the things thought of (like no chevrons on battleshirts) are thrown on the rocks in that book.

[PenPusher]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

The original regulations stated that the trim color for infantry should be crimson:-

"For a Captain, the same as for Colonel, except that the collar and cuffs shall be crimson for Infantry or Riflemen, yellow for Cavalry, and orange for Artillery. The coat single breasted, with one row of nine buttons, and with silk braid of the same color as the facings of the corps, running each side from the buttons, the top braid extending five inches, and the bottom one two inches, and the intermediate braids graduated from the one to the other, according to pattern in the Quarter-Master's Department.

For Lieutenant, same as for Captain.

For enlisted men, the same as for Captain, except that the braid shall be of worsted."

Please see http:/confederateuniforms.org/conun/stateuniforms-ms01x.php for full copy of the regulations.

Please read the end of the page as this details the changes in color of trim and fatigue shirts and the aproximate date of such changes.

[Iceman]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Yes, Crimson for infantry, but the Military Board revised their branch of service colors two more times; red, then green, then finally blue.

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

So the question that begs an answer is, were the 2nd Miss. wearing a particular trim color as stated by the regs.? Don't we have a choice of three colors per the regs.? The images don't offer a perfect conclusion as they are essentially black and white. Could different companies have initially chosen different colors before being consolidated into a regiment? Are some of the pics we see of the 2nd Miss. guys post Manassas uniforms? Did the companies get some clothing making them a little more uniform while at Harper's Ferry? Or not? Were the guys still in clothing that they marched to war wearing or had they recieved some other clothing by then? While we see a number of overshirts with chevrons applied to the sleeves, none are of the 2nd Miss., so did the 2nd have them or not? Did all of the companies have white stars on their collars per regs.? Did ANY of the 2nd Miss. guys really have white stars on their collars? Oh, the questions for which there is NO answer until irrefutable evidence is produced! What would make a credible portrayal on the field at a reenactment? Try to have some uniformity? Or just leave it wide open since we really have very little to go on for the 2nd that is irrefutable? And having spent more time on this one regiment's early war uniforms than any I've studied in 30 years, I think I might even be able to refute them wearing red shirts! Really! Don't ask me, but I can. So what are we to do? What are we to do without concrete evidence for the varying companies? We can honestly say there is no concrete evidence for much of anything, so go with the uniform guidlines for the event and you won't go wrong. Also don't forget to spend some time on accoutrements as that is a varied too. Some with, some without. Know which you are. And then there's the rifles and muskets. What if your uniform is spot on WITH evidence if it could be found, but you are not carrying the correct rifle? If you're a stickler for accuracy that's kind of like showing up with your perfect uniform and your face painted blue like some Scotland roving Pict. (Envision the Debbie Downer face in your mind.) And don't forget to study up on your first person. Wearing o' the wool and talking about any sports team you happen to like today - or anything from today for that matter - at any time during the weekend is just down right retarded. J_O_K_E. And do you know drill? Really well. Most of these guy had been drilling for months now. Fifteen events for us is about one month for them by the way. Don't just look good (even though we really don't know what that is) and not have the rest down. And if you think you don't want to come now because I scared you off, realize everyone is in the same shoes...we didn't discuss shoes, oh never mind. Everyone has to learn and do the same stuff, so don't sweat it too much. And everyone has just about the same amount of extra time to devote toward their impression for this. So don't sweat it too much. Do your best, ask your company commander what to wear, and come have fun. I'm now back to my post-op meds and you're back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Coatsy]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Silas and Andrew, thanks for posting those photos. Those are nice visuals for those of us who are the visual types.

Matt, welcome to the post of Head Wig.... :)

Skip, does this photo of Mississippi Colonel (later General) Carnot Posey help with the shoulder board question? I am guessing that the frock coat is some form of gray rather than blue.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_21VRh2VIlmA/TOOuso9cOUI/AAAAAAAADl4/yWDD5xuajf4/s400/Posey.jpg

[Pious Jeems]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

http://www.angelfire.com/ms2/UniversityGreys/

Info on sister regiment 11th MS Inf. thus far not any pictures found of officers nor Co. G.

[elcid01]

Re: Mississippi Officer Rank and Images

Nic, agree there are many deviations of the Miss regs between Jan and may. I would like to see the original color of those pics to make a determination. honestly the officer uniforms like the one that Herb posted are in some sort of regulation form and adhered to a regulations..

Herb, Yes that is the pic i was looking for, thanks for finding it!