Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

[Johnny Lloyd]

From the Co H. Quartermaster Department:

Black faux 'Tricorn'- a flat-topped hat looped-up to look like one.
Red battleshirt- we will do a bully-buy with Justin Runyon on these- stay tuned!
Grey pants... any grey pants of quality make.

Yep- that's it.

Officers are requested to have a black tricorn, grey frock with grey pants and dark blue US Army Staff officer shoulder straps.

All leathers to be black.

Other guidelines here here: http://www.westernindependentgrays.org/manassas150/

Men of the Northeast and anywhere in-between. SUPPORT COMPANY H, 2nd MS!!!:D

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

If you don't have grey trousers, dark civilian ones are perfectly acceptable for use.

I'm working on publishing to everyone here a "Christmas wish list" for where to source uniform items. Stay tuned!

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Johnny and all in Co. H,

Compliments of Cameron Stinnett who ordered Co. H's records, we now have a uniform description for Co. H. We will still allow the red shirts and pants as you describe above as this is what was reported from three sources for Manassas. But....here's the good news....BLUE JACKETS with GREEN TRIM. I think that's a fine choice for all the New Englanders and I'll wager you guys have blue jackets! They were listed as being of jean wool, but I think any blue wool jacket will work if properly trimmed with green tape. Take a normal infantry roundabout and cover the sky blue piping on the cuffs and collar with green wool tape trim and you're in. Not much expense to buy green wool tape and you have all winter to sew it on. After Manassas, take the green trim off and trim out a shirt with it. And they also adopted BROWN PANTS with GREEN TRIM. So if guys have brown pants and want to put a green stripe down the side, that's also correct. So you guys have alot of options. Red shirts, blue jackets, gray pants, brown pants, civilian attire...you guys can do this and be most impressive.

[Marc29thGA]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

So Matt - are you saying a Shell Jacket made of Child's Blue Grey Kersey is blue enough?

Dark green trim?

Y.O.S.,

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

The letter says blue jackets of home spun jeans. The shade of blue is left to a guess. I am stretching this to Federal kersey accomodate a situation Johnny and I talked a couple weeks ago. He talked about how many of the guys in New England only do Federal and thus only have a Federal kit so it might be hard to get alot of guys to go buy all new uniforms. To keep some level of uniformity in Co. H, I would recommend going with a red wool shirt or trimming a Federal infantry jacket with green. Though we'll probably never know the exact shade of blue, I think blue grey kersey starts to open up too many variations as I have at least four strongly different shades of it on garmets I own. I'm going to defer this matter to Johnny to decide the shade of blue since this is his company. My two cents.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Enlisted men can use either the blue kersey State jacket with medium green fabric over the light blue piping (if you can sew)/with brown trousers (or dark colored trousers - black/blue acceptable) or use the red shirt/grey trousers option. Either of these will be acceptable based-upon historical account. See attached.

Please see Justin Runyon's form below for red shirts required! Order today! This is a versatile item!

Matt has found that the Blue jackets/brown trousers were adopted for Co H before the red shirt/grey trousers were adopted. There most likely would have been a mix of these in Co H. The above policy will reflect this.

In Summary:

Primary- blue state jacket with medium green piping over all blue piping with brown (or dark) trousers. Same color of piping in a thin line down the leg of the trousers. (If you can't do this, no problem- do without)
Secondary- Red shirt with grey (or dark) trousers

Please tell me if you intend to use completely civilian kit- these should be very limited in number in Co H.

All hats black slouch looped-up in a tricorn pattern or on one side if practicable. No brown slouch hats, kepis or forage caps.

All in prescribed style of event standards!

Please standby shortly for a more detailed uniform for Co H once research is complete.

[teufelhund]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

That last paragraph of the attached letter is a hoot!

" Can anything be done to free a company from drunken worthless members by substitute or otherwise that have been.."

So the question is, How far do we go with the authenticity aspect. Apparently there were a few drunkards in the company. Maybe appropriate for another thread...

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Marc,

Cam and I laughed at that too. So I say for authenticity purposes, Fire away sir, fire away!

[Pious Jeems]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Ah, it appears there were plenty of liquid corn as a row developed as the regiment was on the rails toward its destination in Virginia: From ALP Varin diary.
8 May Wednesday. Bristol is on the Tennessee & Virginia state line, tolerably fine place. Men scarce of provisions. Most of the men continue to get coffee for breakfast, some complain of provisions. Our baggage guard had to sleep out of doors with the baggage because it could not be put on cars at night. 9 AM we started, leaving 2 New Albany companies to come on the next train. Men all well & in good spirits. The country is fine, many green pastures, trees just putting out leaf, apple trees blooming, corn planting. Much more enthusiasm among the people for the Southern cause than heretofore. 10 AM passed Abingdon, fine place, great cheering on our arrival, many beautiful residences. 12 M clearing, pleasantly warmer. Many fine streams along the rout, meadows, green pastures, wheat & c. fields & entirely land of enchantment to the view. Stopped 2 hours for down train. 5 PM a row broke out between the Iuka Rifles - (Tishomingo County Co. K.) & Conewa companies ( Company H - Coonewah Rifles - Pontotoc County) which came near seriously to many, cause mostly whiskey.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

FYI- Attachment cited as: "series 390, confederate regimental files, 2nd Mississippi Infantry Regiment Undated; 1861-1865; 1893; 1903-1904; 1910; and 1930, Mississippi Department of Archives and History (MDAH)"

All the best- Johnny

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Official Company H uniform requirements:

Again, if you intend to wear civilian outfits, please inform me. Thanks- Johnny

I. Headwear: BLACK slouch hat. Either looped up on the sides like a tricorn per Mississippi regulations, or with a side pinned up with a star for Mississippi, or just a plain black slouch hat...

Not much commentary here. NO kepis or brown hats.

II. Uniform Coats/Shirts: All other companies should wear a solid red wool flannel shirt with one white star on each collar. The shirt may have pockets or not, styles can vary, and really any red wool flannel shirt is acceptable. Individual company commanders are encouraged to talk to their respective company to try to reasonably attain a uniform look in the style of red shirts. Since no evidence is given in the Mississippi regulations to put NCO rank on fatigue shirts, and we can find no images of rank on the sleeves of overshirts, NCOs wearing red shirts will NOT wear chevrons. This will make it easier on the NCOs.

Exception to this for Company H based-upon found historical evidence is:

Primary Coat/Shirt: Blue Shell Jacket with ALL blue piping covered with medium green piping (worn with dark brown (or dark) trousers. Same color of piping in a thin line down the leg of the trousers.) This can be a NY State Jacket that so many of you own...
Secondary Coat/Shirt: Red flannel battle shirt found below by Justin Runyon. (This is also worn with grey or dark-color trousers)

Hey ya'll, NO RANK TO SEW ON... :tounge_sm

Officers, if there are any aside from myself, will wear a different uniform. You will be informed of this if you are selected for an officer impression in Co H.

Uniform Pants: Military style gray trousers are preferred for all companies. NO federal light blue trousers (the G.O. to change from dark blue trousers to light blue trousers in the Federal Army did not occur until December of 1861 after Manassas), or civilian patterned trousers (unless entirely civilian attired). Uniformed in a red shirt is preferred, but a very limited handful of fully civilian clothed soldiers will be accepted. Check with your company commander if you intend to come in civilian attire.

'Nuff said... NO LIGHT-BLUE TROUSERS!!!

Under Garments: Period pattern civilian or military drawers and socks are acceptable. No modern underwear or socks.

Um, to echo Wick from a previous thread- if you need to wear modern ANYTHING, then you don't need to come to this adjunct at all. Don't want to insult ya'll's intelligence...:confused_

Footwear: Confederate or Federal issue brogans. Since Federal brogans would have been the model used just prior to secession in southern states, they are acceptable.

We ALL have items like this in our kit. They're pretty-much standard. I'd think the only exception is that civilian-pattern shoes can be used by those that are in civilian gear... not listed here, but I'm sure Matt Woodburn or Skip Owens can clarify. I wouldn't go with English Union/Confederate import stuff unless that's all you absolutely have.

Belts and Leather Goods: BLACK leathers are the order of the day. We prefer black waist belts and black cartridge box belts. We are looking for a uniform appearance. Get out your blacking and clean up your late war looking leathers. Plain Confederate style boxes, not identified as later war manufactured, are preferred. Early war Federal leathers are acceptable as long as NO U.S. plates are used.

Easy enough here. BLACK ONLY Pre-war militia, Early-war Confederate, standard kit stripped-down from all Federal association... a word of caution- you might do well to watch that what you are blacking stuff with so that it doesn't stain your clothing under it.

Canteens and Haversacks: Confederate model tin drum or wooden canteens, and Confederate pattern haversacks, tarred or plain cloth.

'Nuff said too... standard stuff in a generic Confederate kit.

Knapsacks: Blanket rolls are STRONGLY preferred because the Second sent away their baggage including knapsacks on July 17th per Old Ord’s Journal. Mexican war hardpacks or early war Federal double bags are the only acceptable knapsacks if you must carry one. A mid-war knapsack will have a leather disc sewn over the brass that connects the shoulder straps and cross straps at your breast, and is NOT acceptable.

Just don't bring a knapsack unless absolutely needed... bedroll will be the order of the day. It will be hot as Hades for Manassas (it usually is) so I really don't think you will need a blanket.:confused_ I'm bringing an oilskin and two ground cloths. That's it.

Blankets: Civilian, gray with black stripes with the U.S. taken out, and white blankets are acceptable.

'Nuff said- we all have this stuff.

Groundcloths: Painted, tarred, and oil cloths are acceptable. No gum blankets or later war Confederate styles.

See previous above

Tentage: NONE. Tentage and baggage was sent off on July 17th and the Second Mississippi boarded trains to Manassas on July 18th.

See previous above

Arms: Smoothbore, percussion muskets are preferred, i.e. U.S. Model 1842 or earlier models converted to percussion (any style Cone in barrel, drum or bolster). NO flintlocks in the Second! If you have a U.S. Model 1841 “Mississippi Rifle” that one of the rifle carrying companies, Cos. A and B, may borrow, WE NEED THEM. Or if you are in Cos. A and B, we prefer you to carry a U.S. Model 1841 “Mississippi Rifle.” We know there are guys who do not have a smoothbore musket, so if all you have is an Enfield Rifle, that is acceptable. U.S. Model 1861 and later Springfields are discouraged. Please bring the appropriate bayonet for your longarm. Side arms are not permitted to be carried by enlistedmen. Carrying a fighting knife is encouraged and permitted by the event.

1) Mississippi Rifles preferred
2) 1842s of all sorts secondary
3) 1855s tertiary-preferred if necessary (Matt, please clarify...)
4) Enfields/61 Springfield or later acceptable
NO flintlocks, shotguns or sidearms for enlisteds...

Bring a big ol' knife on yer belt...

Any questions, please ask.

Thanks and see you in the fields of Virginia. - Johnny Lloyd:wink_smil

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Since Johnny asked for a clarification on shoes...you should consider what they would have had. Federal brogans, OK, I get that especially with some of the guys in the regiment having been pre-war militia units. Civilian footwear, OK, that makes sense that they would have access to those. Confederate model footwear, yes, again that makes sense. Some of the guys were issued shoes in Virginia before Manassas. So I'd not go for English import footwear since I'm not sure when those would have arrived. Most importantly, show up with a good attitude. No one's going to inspect which model of period footwear you choose.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

The "Blutcher" style English shoe was a popular style of shoe before the war.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Since Johnny asked for a clarification on shoes...you should consider what they would have had. Federal brogans, OK, I get that especially with some of the guys in the regiment having been pre-war militia units. Civilian footwear, OK, that makes sense that they would have access to those. Confederate model footwear, yes, again that makes sense. Some of the guys were issued shoes in Virginia before Manassas. So I'd not go for English import footwear since I'm not sure when those would have arrived. Most importantly, show up with a good attitude. No one's going to inspect which model of period footwear you choose.

Couldn't have said it better, Matt. Especially the last part. Just about anything is acceptable in terms of period footwear- My personal mileage is that I will refrain from the English military pattern I have that is attributed to a known style imported to the Confederacy at a later time period than 1861, but we could split hairs on this all day in terms of research findings.

Again, think of what they might have had access to when you read-up on the period accounts of the unit before the event portrayed.

Bottom line to remember: Don't wear modern footwear of any sort. But I don't have to tell you that. ;)

Matt and Skip are the adjunct sponsor/organizers for this effort, so their call in terms of research & organization is final in my book. ;)

All the best- Johnny Lloyd

[coastaltrash]

Re: Uniform guidelines for Co H, 2nd MS

Nevermind.