Musket Restrictions from Brigade

[elcid01]

Gentlemen please see the information below the tear line from Brigade regarding Indian musket restrictions at Manassas. Please contact your company commander if you have any issues and they may bring them up to me accordingly.

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General Order No.} 1 series 1861



The attention of this office has been drawn to recent reports made by credible media sources of muskets manufactured in India sustaining severe catastrophic failures – i.e. bursting. These muskets are therefore considered a personal safety risk not only to the user but also to participants in the general vicinity, regardless of the situation in which the failures have occurred.



Therefore, the use of muskets manufactured in India by members of Bee’s Brigade is strictly forbidden unless the owner can present evidence that the musket has been ‘proof’ tested by a licensed/registered gunsmith. Company, battalion, and regimental commanders are hereby directed to canvass their commands to determine if muskets of Indian manufacture are within them and to ensure that the required testing has been completed and properly verified. The respective unit commander is to provide a list of Indian produced muskets to the AIG office.

-----------------End of Order---------------------------------------------------------------

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Skip,

Have brigade send us pics of the marking on them, manufacturer marks, etc. so we can identify them upon inspection. If we don't know what they look like, they can get in and put us at risk of injury.

[Steven B]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Would these be the muskets in question?

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32416

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Steve,

Yes.

[LWhite64]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

The NPS is looking into these now as well, however from our end the problem with the exploding weapon seems to have been a wall hanger that was drilled out and never intended for firing. However, we have seen other issues.

[Lewis Robinson]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Lee,

It was my understanding that all reproductions coming from India are non-firing wall hangers because India has extremely strict proofing laws. So all of them are shipped either here or Canada and have a vent hole drilled in the bolster for firing. Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

[Lucky]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Do the repop Lorenzes come from India? Just wondering.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

I believe they are sold by Loyalist Arms. Some of Loyalist Arms' muskets are listed as being proofed and capable of firing live and they say they will provide documentation as such. Some of their offerings do not state this. Many of these arms are also sold by "The Discrimating General" who's website makes reference to the vents not being drilled-through and offers no warrantee if the arms are altered from their non-firing state.

Whichever the case may be, the question is moot. Be they safe or not, they are substandard reproductions and they won't be allowed in Company D.

[Yellowhammer Rebel]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Lewis,
Some of the Indian made weapons are indeed proofed and ready to use, the problem is that not all of them are. From what I understand, through research and what others have said, is that Veteran Arms goes to great lengths to make sure their weapons are good to go. Do I own one, no but I had looked into getting one at one point and have heard/read good things about them from various sources.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Even if proofed, they are substandard reproductions and are easily identified from custom builds or Italian repros.





Foitha more, if the various firms that import these get them from the same source (and I don't know if they do or don't), and one of them fails, what is the difference if one arm is proofed and the other is not? Are they all not manufactured to the same standard, or lack thereof?

Original Model 42&.jpg

[Coatsy]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Here is a great idea... How about you all ask the folks who sell these imports instead of this conjecture that has been floating all over the place. As for folks who like to have sources to back up their posts I've seen very few with this subject besides some photos.

As with the Exploding Gun post that I did shut down for lack of a positive answer of how it exploded, don't turn this into another witch hunt rant please. I've been in the ranks with comrades who use these Austrians Lorenz repros by way of another contienant for 4 years and the most foul ups with muskets that I've seen have been with ..... GASP.... Italian guns.. Oh the horror! However, the foul ups were from user error and no catastrophic barrel explosions, so I will put that out on the record for fairness sake.

Mr. Anders and his staff have sent out the order and it is what it is. I 100% respect this and hope all will follow these orders.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Musket Restrictions from Brigade

Hallo!

The conjecture and speculation in the absence of facts, concerns what the "owner-operator(s)" may have done or not done, to contribute to the catastrophic failure(s).

That Indian import replica non-guns are not classified as firearms under Indian law and are exempt for any governmental production standards, inspections, or proofing laws is neither conjecture or speculation. It is fact.

That Indian import replica non-guns are sold with a blind-eye by the Indians whether exported to a marching band, collector in a country where firearms are banned, theatrical stage or movie prop department, museum or hisotrifcal site for static display, or reenactor, is fact.
That various importers take the Indian import replica non-guns and after they leave Indian as replica non-guns jury-rig them to detonate powder or fire live, is fact.
That there appears to be a range of quality to the accuracy (ALL lacking to a degree, some worse than others or worse than the lower end), fit and finish of the workmanship, and quaity of the hardening and tempering of parts, etc., driven by what the importers want to pay to set their businesses pricing structure, is fact.
That some of the these importers jury-rig themselves or have gunsmiths do the work, is a fact.
That some of these importers do not want riskl the liabiity as say nothing when they sell Indian import replica non-gun that the buyer may jury-rig to shoot, is a fact.
That no importer is going to admit these things are "unsafe at any speed' when they are the ones haivng sold them as firearms, is a fact.

That there is a chronic level of misunderstanding to the point of ignorance as to what makes a firearm a firearm and what keeps a Indian import replica non-gun a wall-hanger or decorator even if rigged to fire, and even if the tube posing as barrel is "proofed."

That the reenacting community is divided between those who don't know, or don't care, or who believe Indian import replica non-guns are fully safe or safe enough under the conditions reenactors and live-fire shooters use them, is fact.

That "we" as a community are divided as to whether this is an issue or even a concern.

Eveyone is entitled to their opinion, just not their own facts.

If NOTHING else, the low quality and lack of faithfulness to the originals should make the vast majority if not all of the Indian import replica non-guns fall beneath the standards of the AC Forum's Rule No. 3: No Farbery (which is why they are not allowed to be sold in the WTS folder.)

Curt