Overcoats

[dixieflyer]

OK, far be it from me to tell folks what to do. I've already seen folks telling other folks to forget the overcoat. That's fine, but:

- The 15th Iowa had 'em according to primary sources. Should we all have one? For the purist, yes. However, I know I am questioning my ability to hump this item. I know I'll be carrying a change of underclothes because I know I'm going to lather up after five miles in harness. Changing out will keep you warm Saturday night.

- When I participated in the 125th of Shiloh in '87 a cold front came through dumping 6" of snow on B'ham. We drove through the snow to get to Shiloh where the lows were in the 20's at night and it didn't get much warmer during the days with high winds to boot. Overcoats were at a premium. that weekend.

I am still debating this item in my head, but I guess each individual has to make his decision on this.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Overcoats

I was @ that same event......125th Shiloh that is. That was my 3rd year reenacting. I bought my Great coat there that I still wear today! I woke up in my pard's shelter half with snow/frost on my blanket as my feet stuck out the end of the shelter half....I'm 6 ft tall. I felt fortunate to be able to buy one before the sutlers ran out. It was a bit large for a young man of 21, 6 ft and 165 lbs. I belonged the the 14th Indiana Vol Inf, Co E from Evansville, IN then. That was a good group though they splintered later then finally ceased to exist. The core people were Tom Nord, & brother Terry; Ron Conners & brother Mickey, Chuck Warnick, Rick Crowe, Walt Wells, Albert Schlacter, and James "J-J-Jimmy" Voelker.

I am witness to what Warren says! I'd take the Great coat just to have peace of mind. Be true to those brave boys of '61 and do it right!

If you have 2nd thoughts, take it & make a weather descion before you leaving the car before the event.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Overcoats

You know Michael, I had one then of unknown origin, purchased by a friend of mine in the 70's when you could get decent clothing on sutler row. Lost of hand work, etc., but hard times later forced me to sell it and I've never had a better one since. Guess I'm looking at paying $400 or more for one for this event. :(

[Arch Campbell]

Re: Overcoats

I don't think its really fair to frame this as a matter of "personal choice." I understand that overcoats are very expensive, and I fully understand that there will be those in attendance who cannot afford to purchase one- if I did not already own one I would be among their number. But for those who already own an overcoat, it's pretty simple- we know they had them. We know they had them strapped to their backs as they disembarked from the Minnehaha. Therefore, they are called for in the uniform guidelines.

The weight isn't that oppressive as long as you know the trick: lengthen the shoulder straps on your knapsack by 2 notches from where you normally keep them. Run the straps under the overcoat straps as they wrap around the overcoat. This forces the overcoat to sit upright on top of the knapsack and prevents it from pulling backward, which is what makes it so uncomfortable (for you and for your filemate, who has it in his face otherwise.)

I was also at the 125th Shiloh. It actually did snow on site, the night before you seem to have arrived... it was quite a night :wink_smil

[dixieflyer]

Re: Overcoats

Arch, threading the overcoat straps through the shoulder straps is a trick that my old pard Daryl Black and I figured out so many moons ago at Pickett's Mill, and became my default carry mode. (Too much backpacking and 11B work in my youth on my part I guess.)
Very good points overall regarding "choice" on the overcoat Arch. As to choice, well, I guess I'm coming from a place where the whole shebang is personal choice, whether it is being there/showing up, or even choices we'll make that only our "hairdresser will know for sure". This item, done right, is so expensive, and yet so rarely used. We are in the midst of a terrible economy, and at this time even I do not have regular employment, but hope springs eternal on this end. For me to spend $400 right now on something like this is something I do not feel good about. However, my wife knows how much this impression and this event means to me personally, and she has not said a word about the money I have spent to re-equip myself for this, God bless her. (FWIW, I sold off another whole impression to finance most of this, so it's not money out of my family's mouth, but still . . . . ) I am sure that there are others in the same boat I am in.
I have a vision in my head of how awesome it is going to look with a 400 man battalion are drawn up with overcoats rolled and slung on the top of their knapsacks. I never thought I would catch myself saying this, (and I'm sure Telly Savalas will revoke my CW Players Club Gold Card membership for saying it), but I would almost rather see participants carry a mainstream/sutler row quality overcoat instead of none at all just to achieve that look. As has been stated in the regs and research for this impression, we know they had them. However, common sense and knowing what we know about soldiers then as well as now, I am sure that in the confusion, disorder, and fear of the morning of April 6th of '62 some might have been left at the landing, or some may have gotten ditched by the side of the road on their march to take up position.
Anyway, yeah, we should have overcoats, we all know it would look absolutely awesome if everyone did. However, if spending $400 on one keeps someone from making it to the event, etc. I think I'd rather them just not bring it, and still show up.

Just my two kopecks.

PS: Yeah, we (me and a pard and our wives) spent that night in Corinth since it was dark and snowing rather than try to find a non-existent camp in the dark.

[Arch Campbell]

Re: Overcoats

Like I said, I don't have any expectations of anyone buying an overcoat just so it can be strapped on top of their knapsack for this event. I am talking about those who already have one making a conscious decision not to bring theirs.
Heresy as it is on this site, I would agree about sutler row overcoats- unless it is brutally cold they will most likely remain strapped up, and thus owners of substandard overcoats are unlikely to be "found out."
It is going to look impressive with (I hope) most of a battallion having them on top of their knapsacks- Cyrus Boyd sure found it impressive-looking on the morning of the 6th, as he called it out specifically in his diary.

[garyjd]

Re: Overcoats

Are there any photographs, modern or period (if done this way) of carrying the overcoat using this method? ~Gary

[dixieflyer]

Re: Overcoats

Arch,
Yeah pard, a 400 man battalion, all with:

- sack coats
- Hardee hats
- overcoats strapped to the top of the knapsacks

How cool will THAT look?? The only way it would look better is if everyone had a '61 Springfield, but even Matt and other organizers of this know that is a bit much to wish for. (FWIW I'm wrestling with getting one, even for this event, it means that much to me, but I would still rather have an extra Enfield for a number of reasons. Decisions, decisions.)
I need to go back and re-read Cyrus' account of this. If memory serves he mentioned the overcoat in his list of how much they were carrying because they felt like pack mules rather than how they looked. I think everyone in new Hardees impressed him more when it cam to them looking like game roosters, etc.

Still, as you said, they had 'em. I know I'm making the effort.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Overcoats

I'm making myself an overcoat for Shiloh in the style of "eastern-made and rejected/sent west." I plan on following the event regulations to the letter, even if it means carrying an overcoat then dropping knapsacks (!!!) somewhere. It's not too hard to carry both a blanket and overcoat in a knapsack; the shoulder strap/overcoat strap trick mentioned above works great. I've also stuck the knapsack cross-strap hooks through holes in the overcoat straps, which pulls the latter forward so it doesn't sag down and pull you backwards. Worked great at Payne's Farm a few years back, even when my company skirmished in full marching order.

And just because I'm so excited about Shiloh, I'm rebuilding my entire Federal impression. New blouse, trousers, (my very first pair of) drawers, Army hat, issue shirt, and whatever else I need.

[Arch Campbell]

Re: Overcoats

"At 10 o'clock we are ordered ashore with all our equipments including 40 rounds of ammunition With our knapsacks haversacks canteen (and almost every one had an extra suit of clothes) and our overcoats- haversacks filled to the top with hard tack and last but not least each of us had a big high hat with a large brass 'eagle' on the side. If we were not a choice looking lot of fighting cocks as we stood in line that morning then I am no guesser"

I think he means that the fact that they were so well equipped and thus ready for anything made them look impressive. No doubt the hats were a big factor, but he seems to be referring to the picture as a whole.

In our researches yesterday at the State Historical Society I found a batch of letters from a man in Company C. Nothing revelatory about uniforms/equipage (although his image answered one question,) but good stuff about being in camp, first at Camp Halleck in Keokuk and later at Benton Barracks. As we were pressed for time, I wasn't able to copy any of them but I hope to make another visit soon and will post some of the goodies.

[Arch Campbell]

Re: Overcoats

Gary, if by "this method" you mean my little trick about threading the straps- no, not that I am aware of. It really is not visually detectable except at extreme close range- all it does is make the overcoat sit on top like it is supposed to. If you looked at a pard wearing it this way, all you would see is a guy with an overcoat strapped on top of his pack. Close examination of images featuring rolled overcoats with a magnifying glass might reveal something, but images of this are not very common.

Perhaps my pard Peter Castleman will see this thread and be able to comment (his is the largest private collection of soldier images that I have ever seen.)

[Arch Campbell]

Re: Overcoats

Sorry Gary- I completely missed where you said "Modern or period"- I thought you were looking for documentation, but you want a picture to better understand what we're talking about. I would be happy to pack up my knapsack and snap a pic, but I'm so awful with technology that both my camera and computer would probably explode were I to attempt it. Hopefully someone else can oblige with a pic.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Overcoats

Arch, I'm looking forward to see what else y'all come up with in your research.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Overcoats

Arch & Gary,

Somewhere hidden in my stacks of old publications, I recall having seen in an issue of Military Collector & Historian Magazine (Company of Military Historians) an article by Don Kloster regarding the use of a "portmanteau strap" with soft packs. If I recall correctly, he threw out the thought that the little leather loop sewn at the juncture of the shoulder straps may have been provided to insert a toggle on a leather a strap that would hold the blanket or overcoat upright on the pack. I recall he mentions that a sculpture by St. Gaudens in NYC depicts one in use. I have seen no other documentation regarding this and I don't know if the 1865 quartermaster manual mentions them. Perhaps someone knows if this has since been debunked. I would be curious.

Paul McKee

[dixieflyer]

Re: Overcoats

I've often wondered about that loop Paul, I mean, it wasn't like they needed locker loops on items back then. :o It had to have had a purpose, otherwise why put it on there in the first place? (Now, whether the purpose was well thought out or not remains to be seen.)