Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

[dixieflyer]

Friends,
I have a question regarding the preferences for canteens for this event. I've read the posted guidelines, and it just basically says to have a wool covered, smoothside canteen. I'm on that, but what would be preferred beyond that? Are we going to go with a Cincinnati Depot canteen with cloth strap? Leather strap? I've consulted the scribes and sages regarding the cloth vs. leather strap debate, and to be honest, at this stage/theater of the war, and from my limited data, it looks to be a toss up between the two. However, I'd appreciate advice from those that know more.

I realize that for many (most?) this may be too anal. However, I've waited for over two decades to have a good Federal Shiloh experience, and I want to take this as far as I can within my abilities. (I even bought a '61 Springfield just to be a good team player.)

I've got a repro leather canteen strap that I acquired from Chris Schreiber oh so many moons ago, and just never was able to get that ultimate canteen that it deserved. I'd like to use it, but not if it is not what is needed.


Thanks for your help/advice.

[Alexander Vasquez]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

In the Gate City primary articles I had found, there are two mentions of supply for the 15th:

January 17 1862: St Louis was sending teams of horses to Keokuk;
February 7 1862: 8 teams bearing equipments arrived in Keokuk; point of origin for equipments not stated.

It could be possible that the teams referred to on the 17th are the ones that arrived on the 7th; were that the case, then the possibility is strong that these were from St Louis and not Cincinnati. I'd most definitely defer to the expertise of others here, though.

Years ago when I began my Western Fed kit I purchased a Cincinnati canteen and haversack and had Tom Czekanski make me early-war St. L. leathers for my Lorenz figuring that issued goods would likely come from either depot and I'd probably be safe that way; 12 years later and I guess it was a half-way good choice.

Best wishes

Alexander Vasquez

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

In discussions with the Hairy Nation, and their long time primary impression of Iowa soldiers, it has been the consensus that the leather variant is probably more accurate. I don't have primary resources to prove this, but knowing the Nation for so long, I have no reason to doubt their research or opinion and I am sure one of them will chime in on this in short order. We have discussed asking an approved vendor for a Bully Buy for the straps as well. When it comes to the guidelines though, is it a deal breaker? Most certainly not.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

Thanks for the info and advice gentlemen. I know it's not a deal breaker, and I never thought I'd be treated as a second class citizen if I came with the "other" one, whichever one that turns out to be. However, in areas that I can, I am trying to really push my physical impression to the be as correct as possible for this portrayal. (I'm trying to compensate for being old.) ;)

If someone knows more, of if y'all find out more, please let me know.

[adamandnicole]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

I have been looking into this also. It is not black and white, but from what I can discern from O'Donnells canteen book, it appears both could be represented, and perhaps a little more cotton leaning. According to this book, there are no known extant "St. Louis Depot Canteens". If my memory serves me correctly, there was an order for a local tinsmith to produce 10,00 canteens, but the rest of the canteens issued through St. Louis were from the Philadelphia and New York Depots. Philadelphia produced many leather strapped canteens in the pre war years, but they switched over to sewn cotton drill straps in June of '61 due to leather shortages. New York, with the exception of the stopper chain,seemed to look at Philadelphia as the standard and followed suit w/ sewn cotton straps.

St. Louis did contract for canteens from the east that specified leather straps, but this was not until August 1862. As for the Cincinnati depot canteen w/ the tin spout, it was not contracted until 1863. In short, from what I can tell, sewn, cotton straps would have been very common and leather strapped models would have to have been from pre war inventory.

Adam Dickerson

[dixieflyer]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

Hmmm, so that Cincinnati canteen I just bought is not correct for this event then? Well, shuckey-durn!! :(

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

Warren,
My biggest decision rests with whether or not to peel my long time veteran cover adorned with a patriotic Eagle off of my current canteen, or simply purchase another canteen :) I am leaning towards another canteen as I can't seem bring myself to commit such a crime. As far as the strap goes, I really think it would be fine to have either.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

Brandon, get another canteen, I'd hate to see you alter the old vet. Leave him be. That's what I did with mine. Thanks for the strap advice.

[Pious Jeems]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

If'n you ain't already walking and prepping for this event please begin. 6 months away!

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

I figured on bringing an early Philadelphia or New York canteen. Not too much difference between the two if they're early-war, except the method of attaching the cork and possibly the strap. Mine will be (obviously) smooth-side, pewter spout w/o maker stamp, leather or double-sewn drill strap w/o maker stamp, and some kind of "early" cover that would be somewhat undesirable. For instance, at three separate collections I have seen a number of canteens covered in black, gray, or med.-dark brown kersey, satinet, wool felt, or broadcloth that weren't quite as shoddy as one would think (cut from early overcoat remnants?). From the looks of the cork hardware, lack of maker stamps, and some of their documentation, these were early eastern-made canteens that were used by soldiers in the west. Most of them also had loose spout collars, poorly formed soft pewter spouts, and were made from low-grade tin. My opinion is that these were second-quality canteens shipped west, so that's what I am looking for in my own early western canteen.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

Brian,
Chain or twine/string for the cork attachment?

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

The originals I saw had both; just depends on the depot of origin, and sometimes the contractor. If I can get the proper NY style cork hardware and early "domed/cinched" cork cap I'm going with a chain. If I can't get that hardware made up I'm going to go with an early Philly canteen with waxed thin hemp rope keeper.

[Horace]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

I'm curious what the proper hardware and "domed/cinched" look like...

[dixieflyer]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

Me too Todd, especially since any books I had with good canteen pics disappeared from my collection a long time ago. Maybe Brian will do us the favor of posting pics for what we should be aspiring to. :)

[CSchneider]

Re: Canteen Preferences for the Paddle-Wheeler Adjunct

Fellas,

The stoppers used on virtually EVERY reproduction canteen these days is a copy of the circa 1864-1865 New York stopper. The stoppers seen on the majority of canteens used during the war were quite different. Definitely check out O'Donnell's book for information and detailed photos of the stoppers required of contractors by various depots at different times during the war. Early Philadelphia canteens used a very long eye bolt and cork, with a washer as opposed to a "cap" above the cork and a washer and notched nut below the cork. The eye bolt and cork got shorter as the war went on, and the washer above the cork eventually turned into the same "cap" that New York used later in the war, but the unique nut stayed the same. New York used a domed cap throughout much of the war along with the rounded nut with two flat sides as we see on reproduction stoppers today, though those nuts were often brass. They switched to the cap we see on reproductions later in the war. Cincinnati canteens from the 1863 and 1864 contracts used a much shorter cork, a cap like the later New York and Philadelphia canteens, and a domed washer and square nut below the cork. If you want the right stopper you'll need to grab a copy of O'Donnell's book and take it with you to the hardware store and/or workshop. Reproducing all of the stoppers is doable, with the early-mid war New York the easiest if you can find the matching domed "cap" among the specialty washers in the hardware store (look for the countersunk "finish" or "finishing" washers), and can cannibalize the eye bolt, cork, and nut from another stopper. The Philadelphia stopper is more difficult, requiring you to machine a new nut, make a new eye bolt, punch out a couple washers, and find/make a cork of the proper length and diameter.

I can't load the enlarged photos for some reason, but if my memory is correct this canteen has the typical domed New York stopper: http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?s...21&lotNo=57740. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Same deal with the slings. Not all early canteens had leather slings (in fact, probably only a minority did), and the use of leather slings was not exclusive to Philadelphia canteens in 1861-1862. Just depends on the depot, timeframe, and contract. I can't recommend O'Donnell's book enough if you are interested in the topic. You can probably even get a good idea of the specific cover material you should be using on your canteen from that book too.

-Craig Schneider