150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

[BrianHicks]

The 150th Anniversary of the Civil War will soon be upon us. And whether we like it or not, so will the big Anniversary Megafest Events (some of you will recall the 125th Anniversary cycle). And while the 150th cycle isn’t set to start until 2011, for those who plan events, I think we need to start talking now about how the anniversary cycle will impact on our end of the hobby, and more specifically, the events we sponsor for the folks on our end of the hobby.

As much as we’d like to believe that each of the anniversary years will be just like any other year, I think we all know this won’t be true. And as much as we’d like to think that we can still hold our own events with the same level of participation while the anniversary events are on competing weekends (or close enough to them t be a distracter) I fear reality might show otherwise.

So… here’s a few questions I’ve been pondering:

1. Knowing that events really need to be planned out at least 18-24 months in advance to get on the calendar, secure the site, etc. How much into 2011 and 2012 (and the following 3 years as well) do we plan, before we start competing with the big anniversary events?

2. With these kinds of big anniversary events only coming around once in a lifetime (or … well every 25 years or so…) how will they impact on attendance at the smaller events such as we see sponsored by folks in our end of the hobby. In other words….will a greater proportion of our folks choose to travel to the big events, for that once in a lifetime experience, expending those kitchen passes, incurring the travel expenses, etc. and subsequently have to fore go the events we put on for ourselves?

3. If the premonition as foretold in No. 2 above comes to pass, then should we begin now to organize our own Authentic Units to represent our end of the hobby, and give other like minded folks a home at these big events?

4. Do we neglect to consider the impact the anniversary events will have on attendance at our own sponsored events, and continue on as if it were business as usual for planning events?

5. Have folks began considering how they will get the better impressions involved at the actual historic sites for the anniversary Living Histories? Knowing that often, the National sites don’t commit to events as far out as we do, what are the plans to overcome this obstacle as the anniversary years approach?

Any thoughts or comments provoked from waht I’ve written above?

Discussions?

[coastaltrash]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

After "Life on the Line" this past June, Rick Martin gave me a few weeks before he made the comment "The 150th is coming, we should start planning now". With that comment came a personal push to take what we did and go one step further. In February 2009 there will be an event at Vicksburg that will be a "School of the Campaigner" of sorts. It will be a mix of NPS and Living Historian. The end result (hopefully) will be a clear understanding of how the 150th SHOULD be portrayed for Vicksburg in all three aspects of the Siege and Campaign (Confederate, Federal and CIVILIAN). Part conference, part living history with the end result being proper education of the public.

Before anyone PMs me or emails me, Elizabeth Warnick (she'll be Elizabeth Landrum in June 2009) is handling civilian registration for that event. I think David Slay would agree the civilian story of the campaign (not just the siege) is a huge missing link and an endless story that can be told.

Not sure how others are planning, but that is how I am starting out for the 150th of Vicksburg.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Brother Hicks-

Wow, another great set of questions that impact the hobby in the near-term.

As you know, Greg Deese has been trying to bring focus to the 150th events down in South Carolina on a local level there. He and I have discussed this very topic.

This is a good thing we are talking about it now... :)

The way I see it, if there are "carpe eventa"-style events at the major 150th events, then authentics will have a place to meet-at in a progressive manner when they "go to see the sights". Small (company level on each side) units of authentics would coordinate with the mainstreamer organizers so that no individual that espouses authenticity as their mantra will be left without a home at those events should they choose to see them. The authentic community needs to make sure there will be at least a blue/grey commander and unit on each side at each "big" event in the 150th series.

Perhaps doing this in a more organized, coordinated and centralized manner than normally done could give authentics the chance to see the big events they might want to see on this special occasion.

Small, local progressive events can be planned as-normal, but organizers of those events must be wary not to hold their events near or around any "big" 150th event- lest the organizers of that authentic event should avoid decreased attendance.

The 150th series has the potential to do two things: a) throw the whole usual schedules of living histories/battle reenactments/authentic events into helter-skelter by sheer numbers and choice of events for reenactors or b) be a great way authentics can "capture the moment and shine" for fellow reenactors through great living histories/events.

All of the above can happen, but only with careful coordination with our bretheren in the mainstream hobby can solve this problem well ahead-of-time... a "joining of forces" perhaps for the 150th???

To not acknowledge the fact that the 150th will have NO positive or negative impact of some sort on our end of the hobby is quite naive.

Should we propose to create more "authentic units" or even regional/state boards that are recognized to coordinate authentic events as a focal point for efforts?

If we play our cards right, the 150th series can open-up our hobby to more people, make fellow reenactors want to become more authentic, and bring nobler goals (like preservation) to the general public's attention.

I'm already thinking about attending certain events that have been mentioned to me so far and possibly helping out with them.

We have a real chance here. What a great time to be in the hobby...

Thanks-- Johnny

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

As Mr. Landrum has suggested, it falls on "our end" of the hobby to organize and participate in high-quality living histories for the NPS and state park systems as well. Like Pat, I suggest everyone begin thinking about how this wing can help those sites create new and innovative living history programs for their anniversaries. As great as what we saw at Chickamauga this year was, with a foot in both the NPS camp and this hobby, I don't see why that that should not be par for the course in the 150-cycle, or why we can't exceed its success. Those of you with contacts in the parks, begin to ask them what interpretative goals they have for the next few years, and see how we can help the parks accomplish those goals.

Lord willing and the creek don't rise, with a little help from the economy and some quality media participation, we'll see a general increase in public interest in the war. Hopefully, that will mean that all CW sites are going to see more visitors, new visitors, asking new questions that go beyond the material culture and tactics that we tend to favor so heavily. We have gotten comfortable talking about the military side of the war, but that is simply no longer sufficient. We need to think about those questions of society, race, gender, politics, and economics that dominated the antebellum, wartime, and postwar world of the Civil War soldier beyond the military experience. Answering those questions is the current mission of the NPS, now how can we can help the interpreters answer those questions? Break out of your comfort zone in the 150-cycle, challenge your suppositions, read books that challenge and develop your understanding of the war, not simply those that entertain you with a good story or with fine generalship. If you haven't already, start with Rally on the High Ground.

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Guys,

Your thinking is spot on and very timely. For those of you who were at Perryville 2002 when the AOP brought 300-400 of our end of the hobby to a mainstream event, you will have a great template for what we can do at the 150th anniversary events. I plan to go to one mega event each year during the anniversary series and attend 2-3 of our events each year. While I have no scienticfic evidence of what everyone else will do, I have run with all of you characters for about 28 years now, so I think I can predict with reasonable certainty what you probably will do. I say that to this point, I think the majority of our end of the hobby will attend one maga-event each year to see the "grand spectacle unfold."

[Kiev Thomason]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Guys,

Your thinking is spot on and very timely. For those of you who were at Perryville 2002 when the AOP brought 300-400 of our end of the hobby to a mainstream event, you will have a great template for what we can do at the 150th anniversary events. I plan to go to one mega event each year during the anniversary series and attend 2-3 of our events each year. While I have no scienticfic evidence of what everyone else will do, I have run with all of you characters for about 28 years now, so I think I can predict with reasonable certainty what you probably will do. I say that to this point, I think the majority of our end of the hobby will attend one maga-event each year to see the "grand spectacle unfold."

However I have not been at the hobby as long as Brother Woodburn.I do agree.Most of our side will go to one maybe two big bang events for the 150th .So I think that with what Matt and Hicks and the rest of the above post we have to sit down and weed out which ones would be the best of the locals and head groups to work with.I am open to the NPS stuff as always but as we said some folks want to go and hit up the giants one more time.Just a few thoughts....carry on.

[LWhite64]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

We should also look to events at the parks that are going to be reenacted. I know that back in 88 that the NPS had a large scale living history program at the same time as the reenactment, and from our experiences here during the event in 99 the visitation was through the roof. With the time to plan, we should look for to do some very HIGH QUALITY events during that cycle either at or in conjunction with the events.

Lee

[64OVI]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

This is a good discussion because it forces us to look farther down the road than we normally do. I have heard over the last couple of years folks across the spectrum saying that the 150s will bring a resurgance in new recruits and will invigorate the hobby. And this discussion plays into that by assuming a new cycle of BIG mega-events. I have to question this.
The economics of reenacting have changed and unless there exists some well heeled group of investors ready to sponsor these events, I dont see them happening. The trend has been toward reenactor run events, such as the NSA puts on annually in the West. But the numbers are shrinking and finding partners with land and the logistics to hold these events continue to get tougher. In the East, its even worse because for so long the big events were the for-profit model that doesnt exist out side of Lomasburg and Cedar Creek.
For those of you who see something different happening in the next 5 years, tell me why and how?
Actually I think the real benefit will come to the C/P/H side if plans are made to take advantage of the partnerships developing with the NPS and willing resources like Perryville. Dont get caught up in worrying about Mega-events that I doubt will happen.

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

I agree with Matt. I think that Perryville 2002 could serve as a good model, where "we" have a concerted push for a good battalion sized group at national events. A group at least this large gives us enough autonomy to situate ourselves to be "buffered" from most farby or goofy antics.

Perryville, 2001 is another good example to look at, depending upon the size of the event. In 2001, the WIG had a very good CS effort (48th TN) and the GHTI did the 105th OVI on the US side.

I think this is a very good discussion and a good time to bring it up. Thanks, Brian! I have had at least three other lengthy discussions with folks (off the boards) about the 150ths, what they will mean for the hobby, where we fit, and how to prepare. So, I know that this is something that is moving quickly to the front of folks' minds.

[DougCooper]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Great questions. I attended all the 125th events (mega and NPS) when it was just one hobby. I agree on the two main points:

1. We concentrate on the NPS living history anniversary events to make those the showcase some of the 125th events were, like Gettysburg. This supports the twin goals of preservation and education both for ourselves and the public, while further cementing our relationship with the NPS.

2. We attend the big battle events in well organized battalions to show the authentic end of the hobby and for those of us who have never turned around and seen a column of 4000 men. Oh, and if we go, they will be better events.

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

I think we will continue to have our own schedule of events. If anything, I see th divide between hobbies growing larger. If the 150th brings any influx of new reenactors, they will tend to be driven by popular culture and instant gratification. Thus, they will run out and buy the cheapest possible kit to hit the field int time for the 150th events. They will also be likely lacking in correct historical information and they must certainly will be lacking in field craft skills and possibly military skills (real world military guys will probably adapt to that much quicker). The good news is that thi smay shift more mainstream/progressive reenactors to the c/p/h side of the event schedule.
I think we stay the course and try to lead the way without sacrificing the quality we have worked hard to put into our events. I am certain many of us may attend some of the "mega-event" in some ad-hoc or carpe eventum style, but hopefully the commitment to c/p/h events holds strong.

I am also going to start another discussion regarding NPS site attitudes. These differ park to park, but the park in general are going to have to begin to recognize those reenactors with quality impressions and programs instead of shear numbers.

Regards,
Jim Butler

[dusty27]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Mr. Hicks,

Many on your email distribution are preparing for the coming weekend and Glendale, so this thread has been addressed by predominately "Western" guys with Mr. Cooper being the "East in the West". I'll offer my thoughts.

My feeling is, that in the East at least, the folks that call themselves "C/H/P" will want to take part in the mega events available during the 150th. For the discussion, maybe we should begin listing the possible eastern 150th mega-events. My guesses:

1) Manassas
2) McDowell/Valley battlefields/Antietam
3) Gettysburg
4) Overland
5) Appomattox

Maybe someone else can list some possible western mega possibilities

My feeling is that the way to optimize the experience for both veterans and the newbies on "our side" would be to form a large contingent to attend one mega a year and fill the rest of the time with well done NPS/state park events.

I think that it is unrealistic to think folks won't attend these events just to see the numbers.

Hopefully we will be able to raise money and awareness for preservation at the same time.

[BrianHicks]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Mr. Hicks,

Many on your email distribution are preparing for the coming weekend and Glendale, so this thread has been addressed by predominately "Western" guys with Mr. Cooper being the "East in the West".

Hopefully they'll add their thoughts after the weekend.

I'll offer my thoughts.

My feeling is, that in the East at least, the folks that call themselves "C/H/P" will want to take part in the mega events available during the 150th. For the discussion, maybe we should begin listing the possible eastern 150th mega-events. My guesses:

1) Manassas
2) McDowell/Valley battlefields/Antietam
3) Gettysburg
4) Overland
5) Appomattox

Maybe someone else can list some possible western mega possibilities

While there have been no whisperings as to which battles will be represented during the 150th cycle, I'd guess that these might be considered:

1) Shiloh
2) Chickamauga
3) Stones River
4) Franklin

My feeling is that the way to optimize the experience for both veterans and the newbies on "our side" would be to form a large contingent to attend one mega a year and fill the rest of the time with well done NPS/state park events.

I've heard the same from others. Perhaps it's not to early to begin making a few basic assumptions:

1. Which Mega Events are most likely to take place?

2. If it came down to just one Mega Event per year, which would be the most popular choice for each year? Which 1862 battle is most likely to be a Mega Event? Of those that are very likely, which one is most attractive to our end of the hobby to want to attend in larger numbers? Which Battle in 1863? 1864? etc.....

3. If we can begin to identify the most prevalent mega event for each year, we should then begin to look to the NPS sites, and start to consider which one site, for each year, we would like to target for the greatest presence at a LH on the actual grounds. In doing so, how far (time wise) do we need to have the date removed from that particular years Mega Event?

---Or are we doing #s 2 and 3 in the wrong order???

I think that it is unrealistic to think folks won't attend these events just to see the numbers.

Hopefully we will be able to raise money and awareness for preservation at the same time.

I agree with on both of those last statements.

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

It was said above that factors, mostly financial, will cause the mega-events not to occur. I disagree. Gas is at a record high, and the economy has been stagnant for quite awhile, yet over 10,000 people are headed to Gettysburg in a few weeks. Now, if the statement is the mega-events will not set record participation, I agree. I don't think we'll see again 32,000 reenactors in one place, with 26,000 of that being military. It was quite a site. And as Doug said, it is a spectacle to behold, seeing your column of 4000 moving into a field and then seeing two more of the same size follow, while the enemy of the same numbers moves into view.

As for which events in what years...1863 and 1865 are already selected for me as a no-brainer, and they will be Gettysburg and Appomatox respectively. As for the other years the events in the east have been the largest. We've had mega-events in the west, but attendance has always lacked. For me that means my mega-events will be out east. Does that mean I won't attend a mega-event in the west? No. But it may be confined to doing a high quality living-history with the NPS while the mega-event goes on close by. After our demonstrations at the park, I would likely go to the mega-event at night to stroll around and take in the sites.

So what would it look like?

1861 Mega-Manassas
1862 Mega-Antietam, something at Shiloh, something at Perryville
1863 Mega-Gettysburg, something at Chickamauga
1864 Mega-Wilderness, something at Franklin
1865 Mega-Saylors Creek/Appomatox

This is just where my head is right now.

[64OVI]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

It was said above that factors, mostly financial, will cause the mega-events not to occur. I disagree. Gas is at a record high, and the economy has been stagnant for quite awhile, yet over 10,000 people are headed to Gettysburg in a few weeks.



So what would it look like?

1861 Mega-Manassas
1862 Mega-Antietam, something at Shiloh, something at Perryville
1863 Mega-Gettysburg, something at Chickamauga
1864 Mega-Wilderness, something at Franklin
1865 Mega-Saylors Creek/Appomatox

This is just where my head is right now.

Matt.... I dont disagree that there will be a big 150th Gettysburg. Thats the no-brainer because that event happens every year and it will be easy for George Lomas and GAC to plan for it. I'm guessing they already are. And I would also speculate that it will be the largest event since the 135th. I have heard many guys who arent active anymore, say they would come out of retirement for that one. One last Circus Maximus I guess.

But who do you see putting on the other Megas in the East? It would take someone resurrecting the old Warlick for-profit model as I dont see reenactors having the exerience or ability to pull off a 10,000 man event by themselves. Or is Cedar Creek going to transform itself into Manassas for one year and then the others in sucessive years?
I m sure Chris Anders will continue to grow his series of progressive mainstream events during this period and hopefully that will provide some cycle of events in the East.
Its not that I dont think that the current reenactor base, mainstream or otherwise, wouldnt support the kind of cycle that you envision. I just dont see outside of GB or Cedar Creek where the backing and logistical abilities to handle Megas will come from. Maybe Im wrong but I dont think so.


Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"