150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

[Rob Murray]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

The "Mega" events will happen. There's money to be made. As for who will sponsor them, CCG/Lakeway Publishing comes to mind. Whether I attend one is another question. The last one I attended was 1st Manassas '01. I swore I would never go back. For myself, I will go where the N/SA goes, if nothing else the leadership (Steve Dunfee and Mike Moore) will do its' utmost to give us the best event possible.

I think Matts' list is pretty spot on.

My personal feelings are that we should stay away from the dates of the "megas", and focus on some of the lesser battles. That way folks that want to see numbers can, hopefully without affecting "Our" events. Also, having fewer Tier 1 events may pull more of "US' together. I would love see 600-1000 of "US".

[SCTiger]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

I would hope that in addition to the usual events, that we would focus on other areas outside the usual areas but, crucial to the war.

1. Fort Sumter, Charleston Campaign- (Some bias here)
2. Vicksburg
3. Virginia, 1864 & Petersburg Seige
4. Carolinas Campaign- North Carolina.

I am mostly citing strategic areas outside the Potomac, Virginia valley. This sesquicentennial should emphasize the strategic loses and exhibit to the public that his was a war that wasn't won or loss due to one singular battle but, it was fought over a large, national, area.

None of us will get everything we want. There needs to be less competition and more cooperation. I say pick two major places for each campaign area and let's all support them. For Charleston I would like Fort Sumter (1861) and Battery Wagner (63). Wagner conflicts directly with Vicksburg and Gettysburg. So you see the dilemma. If I couldn't get Wagner, I would like a Carolinas Campaign event.

Other problems:

Accurate early war gear, uniforms and weapons. How are we approaching this?

Involving younger people: Honestly I was born during the Centennial so, we need to recruit some younger folks that will carry the torch for the next generation. This should be a high priority. How can we reach the most young people in a CW venue?

Preservation, this would be the best time to really help out the most endangered places and to take advantage of the commemorations to put battlefield preservation back on the radar of most politicians and the public at large.

Thanks Brian for starting this thread and BTW a good place to discuss future plans would be as a SC militia man or US Regular at Fort Sumter in 08, 2009 or 2010. Shameless plug, I know.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Involving younger people: Honestly I was born during the Centennial so, we need to recruit some younger folks that will carry the torch for the next generation. This should be a high priority. How can we reach the most young people in a CW venue?

There is a really good point here and might be worthy of its own thread.

At the end of the day, I think one of our most important goals should be to create interest in the Civil War, for young and old alike. When actively recruiting, we should be focused not just on getting guys to join "our club", but just getting guys in the hobby. The more guys in the hobby, the better it is for all of us, for preservation efforts, attendance to battlefield parks, and on, and on...

I am personally very excited about the 150th's and hope to be very active during that time, not only with "the big 'un's", but with NPS events, as well.

[trippcor]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

This is a great discussion and one that needs serious consideration. As others have already said to deny that any mega events will not have an impact on what we do is foolish. One just has to look at past history to see that. Whether we want to admit it or not there is still a large portion of our hobby that still likes to go to powder burners. I submit the 60 man company I raised with little effort for Resaca last year as proof.

While I fully support NPS and State Park events, I think you will be hard pressed to get folks to choice a Living History over a near by mega fest. So we need to think hard about how we schedule and market any such LH event that would be close to a mega fest if we want any good level of support. We make the claim it is not about numbers it is about quality. This is true at some level but you can also not have a quality event if you don't have enough people to accomplish what you wish to protray to the people or the attendees.

[crabby]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Excellent discussion. This looks like it should become one of the main focus discussions this winter at many of the annual meetings each of our goups attend (WIG, GHTI in December, etc.). For many of us (grayhairs) this could be our "last Hurrah", before our ultimate GAR impressions!


Crabby

[Charles Heath]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Brian,

This topic cycles around approximately every six months on various fora and listservers, and has for at least 12 years. Far from being beaten to death, this is a healthy discussion, and folks are reminded to look up some of Dave Pridgeon's most excellent rants on the subject of taking charge of the 150th anniversary cycle of events. The randomess of it all is what chaos theory is all about.

If you want to volunteer to take the reins of the EBUFU calendar, and actually do the work, then please let me know, and I will help you in any way shape or form that I can. It is time this task moved from a large plastic wall calendar (At A Glance PM 326-28) and Vis-A-Vis markers to MS Outlook, and instead of an 18-month outlook, it moved to a 5 or 6 year horizon. That calendar typically has a few layers. The first being the holidays and other "don't reenact here" dates. Easter and Mother's Day are always fun ones. The second being whatever the N/SA, M-DA, and other large mainstream groups are doing that year, and then the third being those open events on this end of the hobby. It's the big potato approach, and it is wise to keep an eye on the elephant in the room. I bet that comes as a big surprise to some folks.

Figuring out who remains in the hobby after the 2008 season may be a good plank in this foundation, too. At least in the East the top notch event producer pool will shrink dramatically, and changes with the way the NPS and other landholders do business will be a wake up call in no small way. That's a topic for discussion in late May, and no sooner.

[Milliron]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Excellent discussion. This looks like it should become one of the main focus discussions this winter at many of the annual meetings each of our goups attend (WIG, GHTI in December, etc.). For many of us (grayhairs) this could be our "last Hurrah", before our ultimate GAR impressions!


Crabby

I have a feeling this will be true for many people. Most of our mess have tentative plans to "retire" after the 150th cycle. Considering the relative age of many of the heavy hitters in this end of the hobby, I would be surprised if this were not a real factor in determining what events people attend by 2011.

Some of the "mega" events will likely be held on sites I have not visited. While no fan of the "mega event", I think I would be interested in seeing those sites. Still, I will always pick an "authentic mega event" in the hinterlands over a "mainstream mega" on a well known battlefield, as a rule.

The question seems to be: does the C/P/H wing want to compete with these events or participate in them? I think in this context you may see many folks wanting to participate where ordinarily they would not.

[Mississippian]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

I think that the Spring of 2011 provides an excellent chance for the CPH side of the hobby to come together. If (a big If) we can put reenactor politics on the back burner, and focus all of our attention on two or three events for the spring of 2011 we can create something memorable. Here is my idea:

April 2011: Greg Deese's mega Ft. Sumter event, this is a great idea. I think if we start to work with the NPS with it now, it could be something bigger and better than any LH put on anywhere.

Late May/Early June: A FULL REGIMENT muster, one up North, one down South. We have company and small battalion size musters all the time. But I want to see a 1,000 man regiment. Think of it, two full sized regiments getting organized and ready for war. I think if we worked with a qualitiy National sized organizaion (I'm looking at you North-South Alliance) we could make this happen. I'm not a member of the NSA, but I have great respect for what they have done out here in the West over the years. You could have the 1st Federal Divison have its regimental muster in Illinois or Indiana, and the 1st Confederate Divison (or whatever it's called these days) have it's muster somewhere in the Midsouth, say the Mississippi-Alabama-Tennessee area.

July: Either the Bull Run mega event, or a large LH on the battlefield.

As you can see, my idea tries to spread the reenacting love around, with events in South Carolina, the Midsouth, the old Northwest, and in Virginia, that way everybody gets a piece of the action, and the events don't conflict with each other directly. The goal of all this it to have a more unified CPH side of the hobby that will work with, instead of aganst, each others interests.

Will MacDonald

[btfire]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Virginia and North Carolina seem to have some good things coming along for the 150th Cycle. They have posted information, set a few goals, started planning and are very public. When public money is used, that is exactly how it should be played. Here in South Carolina, things are a little different. The bill has yet to make it into law, people are jockeying for position and prestige, and deals are being made behind closed doors. Perhaps this will change once the bill clears the House Judiciary Committee. So far this bill has failed to make law in three attempts. Why? Perhaps the politics and lobbying behind the scenes are keeping the power grabbers fighting too much. I wish I knew, since my tax dollars will be used. I give kudos to those out there busting their butts to make this happen, and to lawmakers with foresight and thoughtfulness to work out a sometimes sticky subject into the masses.

[JACKSONVC]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Mr Macdonald has struck an interesting point, to control our own fate at these main streamed events, campaigners as a collective group will have evolve into regimental organizations, or at the very least, battalion sized elements. This in itself is a less than easy task, having campaigned with the AOP at a few events, the best that we can hope for on such a scale is perhaps a single anniversary event per year to which we devote maximum effort.
We would be facing a unique challenge that the boys of "61 certainly faced, the building of large, cohesive combat formations that act as a regiment or battalion of that time. This means that a unified command structure within the campaigner organizations would have to be created. Competent Company officers, Battalion Staffs, and Commanders at the very least would have to be elected or selected to become the basis of the "Beast". Standardized Drill would have to be adopted as well as weapons and uniform common to all. Essentially, we would be creating an army.
The real question is, can we as a collection of small messes, platoons and ad hoc companies, portraying every volunteer regiment within both the Union and Confederate Armies put aside our mess identities to create a single Regiment? Would we be giving up what we so love about being Campaigners? Fuel for the fire of discussion.

[btfire]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

In a way, that is slowly happening. How many seven to fifteen man messes end up at the same event under the same commanders, event after event? These organizations may be "ad hoc," but they effectively operate together. By putting together small groups into co-ops, we can make this happen. The SCAR is a good example of a co-op of small messes that operate together. Everyone can still have their own agendas, as long as we can table them at a few events and work for the (pardon the expression) "the greater good."

[flattop32355]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

The real question is, can we as a collection of small messes, platoons and ad hoc companies, portraying every volunteer regiment within both the Union and Confederate Armies put aside our mess identities to create a single Regiment? Would we be giving up what we so love about being Campaigners?

Speaking as a (mostly) mainstream reeanctor who crosses the fence from time to time, I'd say it depends upon what a given individual wishes to accomplish during that particular, special to some, time. Can individual preferences be blended into common goals for the overall satisfaction and sense of accomplishment of all?

If it is to be, the groundwork needs to be in the works long before the '61 part of the cycle begins: Accumulation of funds to aquire the needed common gear and travel/event expenses, event calendars and locations chosen and infrastructure established, the rotation of command structures set, etc. Due to the "historical nature/significance" of the 150th cycle, corporate and governmental sponsors may be more receptive to adding their weight (ie, funding, land) to the efforts as well.

Within the CPH wing, I see no problem of finding qualified command and staff personel. The only trick may be establishing opportunities for the "next generation" of commanders to gain experience under the existing cadre of men so they are set to take over for the 155-160 cycles.

[BCIDick]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

My 2 cents:

1. It is never too early to begin planning. Beginning some discussion on ideas and concepts now can result in more focused and productive detailed planning later. Locations can be reconnoitered and secured, but detailed timelines need to be deferred until the mega fests dates are identified for effective deconfliction.

2. Speaking for myself, I will not forgo quality events simply for larger events. I will probably go to one of the "lifetime" events (and may be very disappointed), but like most, I have learned that bigger is not necessarily better. It is true that the mega events will have an impact, but I don't believe it will put smaller campaigner events out of business.

3. The nucleii of the units exist already in the messes and CR/PL etc. of the hobby. It looks like preliminary work in task organizing into larger authentic units for primarily mainstream events is already in the works, recommend we pay close attention to the AARs from At High Tide and use that as a starting point for organizing larger cohesive units for the 150th.

4. Although I don't think we can exactly have "business as usual" approach to planning smaller quality events, I don't think there will be a quantum difference in methodology. The biggest unknown is attendance, and I don't think we can do more than speculate at this point.

5. Networking among the full time workers/bosses at the National sites can open up lines of communication that can be used when they actually enter their planning cycles for the 150th events. Maybe planning more LH events at these sites from now until 2011 will give us exposure and create the opportunity to create good impressions and the foundations for working relationships in order to carve out our own niche in the 150th mayhem that is sure to come.

[boreguard]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

"I agree with Matt. I think that Perryville 2002 could serve as a good model, where "we" have a concerted push for a good battalion sized group at national events. A group at least this large gives us enough autonomy to situate ourselves to be "buffered" from most farby or goofy antics."

Probably not a bad point in all these that've been made, some will come to pass and maybe some wont. But one thing for sure...maybe two, we might make THE difference by our presence and, ultimately bring some to "the other side" of the hobby. We all would like to see the hobby continue, grow, and be as accurately portrayed as possible.

Attending a mega event isn't the worst thing we could do but, failing to plan something would be, whether we go to theirs or ours. Great questions Brother Hicks.

[Wild Rover]

Re: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby

Good food for thought. For years many of us have been working to to build a base to create the 150th's on. It is not always fun, nor is it at all easy. As a campaigner it hard at times to bite the "bullet" and set rules that are not truly in line with your personal goals, but rather allow for a larger field of participants to create that "cog in the wheel" feeling one gets with larger formations.

I would like to think that the efforts of the past will provide at least a learning tool for folks to look at when they consider putting on events in excess of 1,000 participants.

Great battles are possible, with leadership and control. Ask anyone at the Brawner's Farm action at So62, or the Dusk Fights at September Storm, and the upcoming Assualt on Cemetary Hill at AHT.

These participant only actions, set in the waning "magic" hours, tightly scripted and controlled have given me more period moments than any other events in years.

As Camapigners we can put on bigger events, we can even put on the 150th Anniversary events. The experience and the knowledge is there. But it takes a slightly different approach and a much thicker skin to do so, as the arrows come flying hard and fast from both sides at times. Trust me!

I ask why should we be content to just consume the big events of the 150th cycle? Why not take ownership and take them over?

Pards,