Leather Dying

[bufordsmen1944]

I made a waist belt, and dyed it with fieblings pro oil based dye. Does anyone know what to seal it with to prevent the dye from coming off onto clothes? I have tried some non period acrylic sealers and the dye still rubs off. Any experience with cod liver oil? Also, how long do I have to wait for the dye to dry before sealing it? Also, is there a product that seals dyed raw edges? Any help would be appreciated,

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Leather Dying

Comrade,
Why don't you use the period way to blacken your leather!?
If it is vegetable tanned leather take some iron filings and vinegar, dissolve them in it for a few weeks.
To dye the leather prepare a solution of soda and extract of logwood in water. stain the leather with that solution, then apply the rusty brew immediately afterwards. When slightly dry apply a coat of destilled water. when dry rub in some tallows and neatsfoot oil and perhaps a little beeswax. polish it and you have period correct leather which will not stain your clothes;-)
The staining might not be necessary though, it depends on the leather.
Fiebings dye does not really fit in here;)

[westcoastcampaigner]

Re: Leather Dying

"Fiebings dye does not really fit in here"

This is true but do you realize how many quality vendors dye their leather products using Fiebings or some other modern dye? In fact after reading your directions on a period dye process, I can see why. I'd imagine that your average person (leather vendors not included) doesn't even know where to get most of the products needed to make a period dye such as extract of logwood. Then again I'm a hands on learner and never was good a taking text and turning it into product.

Josh Sawyer
Liberty Rifles

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Leather Dying

Comrade,
Why don't you use the period way to blacken your leather!?
If it is vegetable tanned leather take some iron filings and vinegar, dissolve them in it for a few weeks.
To dye the leather prepare a solution of soda and extract of logwood in water. stain the leather with that solution, then apply the rusty brew immediately afterwards. When slightly dry apply a coat of destilled water. when dry rub in some tallows and neatsfoot oil and perhaps a little beeswax. polish it and you have period correct leather which will not stain your clothes;-)
The staining might not be necessary though, it depends on the leather.
Fiebings dye does not really fit in here;)

According to a recent article published by Mssrs. David Jarnigan & Ken Knopp, this period dye receipt (from the Ordnance Manual) was meant for dying/blacking white buff leather to be black in color...while this process will work turning vegetable-tanned leather black, there were other methods for achieving a blackened product of the period...to include chemical dyes.

Perhaps either Mr. Knopp or Mr. Jarnigan will be gracious enough to share more information on the subject...or to point us to which magazine recently contained this article.

A note on using oil-dyed leathers...the only way I am aware of to reduce the bleeding of the oil-based dye is exposure to the elements...ala heat, rain, etc...

Paul B.

[bufordsmen1944]

Re: Leather Dying

In know that Nick Duvall dyes his leather with fiebings, and the way described in an earlier post produces poor results.

[August77]

Re: Leather Dying

I can't help out with the feibing's rubbing off, but I assume it would eventually get to a point where it would stop bleeding. A wax or shoe polish might help seal it.

As far as the edges go, one option is to use gum tragacanth and an edge slicker. Put the tragacanth on and let it dry for a few minutes then use the slicker on the edges. Another option is to rub a brick of paraffin (Gulf Wax works well) on a piece of canvas. You can then use the rag to rub the edges, sealing the loose fibers. For best results I would suggest using the tragacanth & slicker followed by the waxed rag.

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Leather Dying

No, the period recipe mentioned by Mr. Berger does not produce poor results. One cannot simply slather dye of any type onto leather and expect it to yeild respectable results. It all has to with preparation and process. Finishing leather is as much an art as the craftsmanship involved in cutting and assembling the leather pieces.

After dying the leather, apply a coat of neatsfoot or cod liver oil to each side of the item, then when dry apply a coat of an oil/beeswax paste to finish it. If you really want to get into the details, learn how to stuff it with heated oils and waxes.

Dave Myrick

Oh and by the way, sign your complete name to each of your posts or youll get the boot from the moderators.

[bufordsmen1944]

Re: Leather Dying

Oh and by the way, sign your complete name to each of your posts or youll get the boot from the moderators.

The name signed is my full name.



--M Raymond Cunningham--
First, Middle and Last.

[gfchhdgf]

Re: Leather Dying

Just my .02, if the period way produces poor results now maybe two things are happening. Maybe (no judgment on your friends I play with all sorts of recipes for things like this and goof them up) it just isn't being completed right, OR the period way produces poor results in comparison to leather dyes we have today. I'm sure the result in that period that it produced was not thought of a poor since they did not have the luxury of slapping on some fiebings. I myself have tried it and was rather pleased with my results, it was just a test piece of leather to see how it would work but it produced a nice rich black color, it took some effort to get the dye to take however. Like I said though, just my .02, if that's the way they did it then, then that's probably the way I'm going to make my damnedest attempt at doing it now if at all possible.

[bufordsmen1944]

Re: Leather Dying

Ok.........

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Leather Dying

Since David Janagin was asked to comment and, felt he had something worthwhile to add to the discussion I am posting this for him. David is not allowed to post on this forum so I occasionally post his responses for him. Moderators: please delete if you deem this as inappropriate.

Ken R Knopp


David Janagin......Personally I am not fond of Fiebings dye and we have not used it since the very early 90’s. Among other problematic issues, unfortunately modern dyes also have the great possibility of over penetration and as a result do not give that authentic look. However, there are some good dyes on the market that will, in my opinion, work and at least hold a better color than Fiebings. One of the best is “Angelus” jet black, another dye that works well is “Thompson” oil dye. However, to buy these one must be a business in order to purchase from them. The only modern dye we still use is the Angelus jet black as a under coat for waxed leather which is necessary since no one would want to pay the necessary high costs of doing it authentically.

Jan has correctly listed the multi-step process of how leather was originally dyed. The leather dye formula found in the Ordnance manual was originally obtained from a leather tanner by the name of H.A. Dingee as away to re-blacken only “buff” leather “not” for sleeked leather (which was from what most C.W. period leather accoutrements were made). I have copies of the original letters about this formula from the archives. In the article Ken Knopp and I wrote about hemlock leather (Spring 2005 Journal of the Company of Military Historian, called the Hemlock Leather: The Federal Ordnance Department’s “Other” War.) we noted that the formula is hopelessly inadequate for dyeing leather. I might suggest those interested get a copy of the article and read it as it contains more insights into the dye process of the period. We have another article that will be printed in the Journal in the very near future which is about the black dye process and how it was done.

As far as using iron mordents (period dye) for dyeing leather I will state that short of using lamp black this is only way to get a true black in leather. When done right it produces a very rich, deep dark black. A word of warning here though as this method must be tailored to each tanneries mixture of barks. It is not a one size fits all dye formula. To further complicate the issue, tanneries of the period had to alter the mixture due to temperature changes so some modifications would have taken place throughout the year. (This may well be one reason most modern tanneries do not use period methods.) This is also why one of the highest paid jobs at the tannery was the currier. The Curriers job was highly technical with chemical deftness honed from centuries of experience. His job was more than just oiling the leather to make a finished product. It also included mastering the tedious dyeing and finishing process. By finishing I mean far beyond just a dye job. It included preparing (“jacking” or “sleeking”) the leather in order to apply the finish. For a description of the enormously important job of the currier please read our article “Confederate Leather: Black or Brown? How & Where?” By David Jarnagin & Ken R Knopp (NORTH SOUTH TRADER’S CIVIL WAR, July/August 2007)

One last point I would like to extend here is that oil makes a very poor substitute for a finish. If one could read the way 19th century currier finished leather you would find that he would wet the leather then, oiled, stacked (or sometimes called piling), dyed, pressed, and then, “finished” the leather. This is very different from what most people understand today, and that is why leather finishing is a lost art. The reason the oiling was done first was to help determine and prioritize the colors in which the leather would be sold. From most to least desirable leather the order goes as follows: First, “fair” leather hides (these were perfect in color and had no flaws). Second, hides that had minor stains or flaws that were to be “stained” (usually darkened), and third, those that had a lot of flaws or iron stains were set aside to be dyed black. Those with too many flaws to be covered up in the black dye process were “waxed” (upper leather). Before anyone jumps on me about this please note that I reference only heavy leather being made into Military use. There were many other processes and gradings for fancy leathers with other colors used in commercial applications but that is information for another time.
I also would like to note that for those interested in knowing how to care for their leather using authentic “period” methods and ingredients look for our article “The Reenactor’s Guide to Leather Care in the 19th Century” By David Jarnagin and Ken R Knopp (to be out this year in CIVIL WAR HISTORIAN, CAMP CHASE GAZETTE, SMOKE AND FIRE NEW and...on this Authentic Campaigner Forum!)

Sorry about the length, but there is no short answer to these technical questions.

David Jarnagin