Females on the Line

[Clsinclair]

Re: Females on the Line

Go to http://home.att.net/~florencestockade/florena.htm

for an interesting story.

Regards,
Claude Sinclair

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Females on the Line

Don't forget the requirement to have opposing teeth to tear cartridges....

It also helped to not have weeping, festering sores in visible locations.

Yeah last year the surgeon just kept looking in my mouth and shaking his head.

I finally asked what was wrong and .....

He said he was counting my teeth because I was the only one in the unit with a full set and he couldn't beleive it.

Guess it doesn't pay to live in an area with reputation for 'if you get a divorce is she still your cousin?'.

[LejeuneMarine]

Re: Females on the Line

Folks,
People may hate me for saying it.... but I have known of a female or two who have fallen in over the years and passed themselves off and in fact had better impressions than many men that I know (weighing in at 135 and 5'5"). There are so many 300+ lbs men out there who show up with all the "right" gear, made by approved vendors who are allowed to fall in. Why do we think that this is acceptable? What are our standards?!? If we are to try our best to portray ourselves as Civil War soldiers... why do we have a bigger issue with a female who does it right over the "fat man" who is proper kitted out? Just a couple of questions for thought.

Mike Pretus
PS... Hatefull rants are welcome. I expect folks to be angry because I addressed the weight issue that no one seems to want to talk about.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Females on the Line

Folks,
People may hate me for saying it.... but I have known of a female or two who have fallen in over the years and passed themselves off and in fact had better impressions than many men that I know (weighing in at 135 and 5'5"). There are so many 300+ lbs men out there who show up with all the "right" gear, made by approved vendors who are allowed to fall in. Why do we think that this is acceptable? What are our standards?!? If we are to try our best to portray ourselves as Civil War soldiers... why do we have a bigger issue with a female who does it right over the "fat man" who is proper kitted out? Just a couple of questions for thought.

Mike Pretus
PS... Hatefull rants are welcome. I expect folks to be angry because I addressed the weight issue that no one seems to want to talk about.

Mike-

Roger that. I have no problem with a disguised woman being in the ranks at a quality event, but if the soldiers/higher command finds out at that event, she shouldn't be upset when she gets kicked out... like in actual historical accounts.

-Johnny Lloyd

[rick atwood]

Re: Females on the Line

Actually, the disguised part is the creepiest thing about cross-dressing. I guess that's the former vice cop coming out in me. I reckon there is some history to this thread but even then it had to be creepy and disgusting.

Flash forward to the 21st century. You're at a living history and the ladies are gathered around cooking. Suddenly, you notice one of them is a pard disguised as a woman. Most folks would bust out laughing and then come to their senses and leave the event. What's the difference with that and gal-troops?

Gal troops, cross-dressers ect., mean you are at the wrong event.

Rick Atwood

[joey12thga]

Re: Females on the Line

This is from
THE
BATTLE OF ALLATOONA.
OCTOBER STH, 1864.
A PAPER
READ BEFORE THE
MICHIGAN COMIVIANDERY
OF THE
MILITARY ORDER OF THE LOYAL LEGION OF THE IT. S.
— BY —
WILLIAM LUDLOW,
Major Corps of Engineers; Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel U. S. A.
AT
DETROIT, APRIL 2o, 1891.





"After the battle the
wounded of both sides were collected, housed and cared for.
One of the surgeons invited me to come to the hospital with
him, and on the way said he had a wounded woman there.
I expressed surprise, and he said: "See if you can pick her
out." We went through the hospital, and I saw no woman,
but passing through again on the way back, the doctor
stopped at a bed where a tanned and freckled young rebel,
hands and face grimy with dirt and powder, lay resting on
an elbow, smoking a corn-cob pipe. The doctor inquired,
"How do you feel?" and the answer was, "Pretty well, but
my leg hurts like the devil." As we turned, the doctor said,
"That is the woman," and told me that she belonged to the
Missouri Brigade, had had a husband and one or two brothers
in one of the regiments, and followed them to the war.
When they were all killed, having no home but the regiment,
she took a musket and served in the ranks. Like an actor
of the old Greek dramas, war has its two masks of tragedy
and comedy, although it is difficult at times to determine to
which the antiphonal scene belongs—Jo of this case. It is
perhaps not proper in such a paper as this to expose or call
attention to the shifts to which the Confederates were forced
to fill their ranks, but the incident may be told nevertheless."

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Females on the Line

Folks,
People may hate me for saying it.... but I have known of a female or two who have fallen in over the years and passed themselves off and in fact had better impressions than many men that I know (weighing in at 135 and 5'5"). There are so many 300+ lbs men out there who show up with all the "right" gear, made by approved vendors who are allowed to fall in. Why do we think that this is acceptable? What are our standards?!? If we are to try our best to portray ourselves as Civil War soldiers... why do we have a bigger issue with a female who does it right over the "fat man" who is proper kitted out? Just a couple of questions for thought.

Mike Pretus
PS... Hatefull rants are welcome. I expect folks to be angry because I addressed the weight issue that no one seems to want to talk about.

I agree whole heartedly..that is a sig line for certain sure.

I restrict myself from your events because I do not bring the body type of CS soldier. I have dropped over 45 pounds and am in a 38w/44jckt but I dont think I will be able to get down to a size 32/40 which would allow for an accurate representation.

I have 7 CS soldier ancestors, invested hours upon hours of focused study, spent $1000's of dollars on accurate kit, guns, hats, the works....I have a man / material / methods mastery I would put up against anyone....but

I dont look like a CS soldier, in fact I look quite silly. So I do not include myself in the events / living histories on this forum and it kills me, seriously every Tier'd event I see the AAR's... the pics...massisve blues for this ole boy. I have gone and spectater'd a couple of your events and it confirms I aint got it. A

A man must know his lane...

[Johan Steele]

Re: Females on the Line

I want to point out the Allatoona angle simply because I've studied the battle so much in the last years or two. There were actually three women found in the CS ranks by the US troops after the battle, two wounded and one killed. The other wounded was w/ a NC Regiment named "Private Rose." The irony to me is in wondering how a Private Rose masqueraded for very long w/ that name.

A couple of things in this regard need to be pointed out. 3 in most of 8000 engaged. They were a shock to the men who found them out. It obviously wasn't an every day occurance.

IMO if a woman can pass, and I don't mean pretend to be a boy while dressed as a man I mean pass enough to fool everyone around them for 2-3 days. It was done by a few women for real and I've seen it done at a couple events. For the most part though galtroops aren't done right, in that they are an anachronism that stands out. Women soldiers deserve just as much attention and credit as Black Confederate soldiers as the actual historical evidence shows they were about as prevelant. I believe it's been stated with the latest research that about 700 women masqueraded as men w/ 400 odd identified.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Females on the Line

"People may hate me for saying it.... but I have known of a female or two who have fallen in over the years and passed themselves off and in fact had better impressions than many men that I know (weighing in at 135 and 5'5"). There are so many 300+ lbs men out there who show up with all the "right" gear, made by approved vendors who are allowed to fall in. Why do we think that this is acceptable? What are our standards?!? If we are to try our best to portray ourselves as Civil War soldiers... why do we have a bigger issue with a female who does it right over the "fat man" who is proper kitted out? Just a couple of questions for thought."--Lejeune Marine

MIke,

Hooah, "All the Way" and Amen!

You know Mike, what has changed the most...The Army or the People in it...or the people who try to protray those in the Army? I know I served with some females over-there that were great soldiers...I mean the fact that they females never was an issue, they were soldiers and they did their duty.

For those of you who what to use moderm terms like "Cross-dresser" etc. Let's keep this thread "on the high ground", I mean I served as a Nurse in OIF II, how would I have been looked at?

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Females on the Line

"

MIke,
Hooah, "All the Way" and Amen!

Being relegated to spectating and having witnessed your columns afoot, I think a minimum requirement of meeting modern height / weight standards before attending a tier event would do much to improve the accuracy and appearance of your force structures.

Which is right at 185 lbs for 5'9" male +/-

[rick atwood]

Re: Females on the Line

Dale,

I do apologize for offending. I truly did not mean to offend all of those of the fairer sex serving in the modern military or you for your service. Thank you for your service and sacrifice to your country and our freedom.

I just thought we had moved past the gal-troop issue on this side of the hobby. Maybe not.

Anyway, sorry for disrupting the thread.

Sincerely,

Rick Atwood

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Females on the Line

Rick,
NO worries, I mean that.... I know your comments were of no insult...and did not take it as such.

I think that there is an issue in our hobby. That is, we have "Females"... "Non-Gal Troops" (who btw, would not be welcomed) who have good impressions and .....AND can not be singled out without an exam. I have seen female impressions that had I not been a Triage Nurse, I would never have known ( joints and length of fingers). Because they did not stand out, and they pulled their weight.

SO my bottom line question...is it "authentic" to have females in our ranks, who do not stand out and draw attention to themselves?

[CYoungJSU]

Re: Females on the Line

I have only been following this thread for a few hours, but I thought I would weigh in here. Historically speaking, "authentics" are trying to recreate as close to the actual events as possible, correct? Now, the O.R.s, private journals, and letters home may not state specific women's names in the ranks, but that does not mean they were not there. Good, we have already established that possibility, or lack thereof. Since the answer is very ambiguous due to the fact that we do not know the exact numbers or the names of women serving in the ranks and/or what theater they were in, I believe it to be completely "authentic." That said, the woman in the "ranks" should not stand out or draw attention to herself less the consequences be that of a historical nature. Now, the question becomes that if a woman is allowed to register for an event, should she register under the auspices of a male or should the event coordinators keep her gender secret for possible emergency purposes?

Chris

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Females on the Line

Chris,

I think you have some very good points. Should a woman be allowed to register for an event? Yes, but however, if she stands out she will be dismissed as she would have in the 1860's.

[CYoungJSU]

Re: Females on the Line

Dale,

Exactly!