Weight Standards?

[LejeuneMarine]

Folks,
Just a question for the community... should we have weight standards in our authenticity requirements for EFUBU events? I doubt anyone will respond to this thread, since in the 15 years that I have been re-enacting... no one has wanted to address this question for fear of offending many of the folks that we respect in the hobby. If nothing else... please give it some thought. There are some of you out there who have all the knowledge from hours of research and have spent quite a bit of money on the best quality kit, but for some reason can't (or won't) lose the weight to go along with your impression. This is Farbism!!!! Does anyone agree?

Folks, what say you?

Mike Pretus

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Weight Standards?

Mike,

I haven't seen this approach, but I've seen the sentiment before on this subject.

I'm going to put some background on me here, because I think it helps explains my position. I've served 17 years so far in the Marines both on active duty and in the reserve. I've fought our Height-Weight standard every day of that time. I'm 225 and 5'11" which is way over the Civil War ideal and over the Marine Corps ideal except with some caveats written into the applicable orders. I have been reenacting two years now and consider myself a fresh fish still.

If this is Farbism, I'll receive my correction from the moderators. I know my drill, strive to learn more about the equipment and endeavor to recreate the mindset of a Civil War Soldier. If my weight or shape is a factor, it is up to an event organizer to call me on it and ask me to leave. I actually will gladly.

If an event or organization publishes a height-weight standard for inclusion of otherwise dedicated and competent individuals. I won't be giving that event or organization any of my time and money. Uncle Sam already has claim on my exercise routine and there isn't any extra left for Civil War Living History to acheive an ideal I haven't been for 20 years. Even in extreme cases over the past 20 years, such as when I completed Boot Camp and OCS or when I walked off the plane coming home from the Iraq Invasion I was closer to 210 than I was to 190.

Now, to throw this back, before the "Get Rid of Tubby!" shouts start... I had one sour experience at Glendale last month in the midst of an otherwise top knotch event. Not the organizers fault, but several young men who meet the height-weight ideal completely failed to attempt staying in first-person and had a constant case of diarreah of the mouth and every modern subject you can think of. I realized there that I should have said something to them about their behavior, but not being a member of the host organization and not knowing any of these indviduals previously, I did not think it my place. I won't let that happen again in my presence. If my weight is equally offensive or ruins an individual's moment, I offer them to ask me to leave an event and I will gladly.

[biddler165]

Re: Weight Standards?

If authentic events are to have weight standards, should they not have age and physical readiness standards also? If we impose any of these standards, how many folks would meet the new non-farby standards?

[CARY MEADOWS]

Re: Weight Standards?

Gentlemen,
As far as I know, no one has yet to put into any event "standards" a height /weight requirement. This is a hobby that we can all enjoy and should be allowed to enjoy as long as we meet the minimum requirements for a specified event. I think it should be left up to the individual to decide if he can complete all the tasks asked from the event organizers at any specified event. We are not all in our "twenty somethings" any longer, and age does seem to affect us all differently- including weight gain. I am willing to accept a participant if he meets the standards set forth by the event organizers, has a very good attitude, and wants to be a part of the event, despite his height/weight. No one in this hobby will ever be perfect.
Cary Meadows

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Weight Standards?

I desire to be part of the events on this website so much it slays me, really. Hell, I have traveled over 1000 miles just to watch one

I dont look like a CS soldier. I self-police because as I have stated time and time again....

I can dress in all this approved vendor kit and look at myself and not reconcile my impression with those of the CS soldiers I have researched.

I have dropped and maintained alot of weight getting down to 38 trousers and a 44 jacket....but that doesn't cut it. Mainstream events are fine, doesn't matter. (Events suck.. but being fat, female, old is okay)

Love history, know your lane.
'
Self-deprecating pic of what an accurate CS soldier does not look like (5' 7" / 195lbs) :

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Weight Standards?

Ah, the Catch 22 of reenacting:
The young, skinny, dark haired guys are usually broke. They're either in college or just starting their careers. The guys with the background of knowledge and experience to be really great interpretters and with dough to really put together rockin' kits are generally older, wrinklier, grayer, fatter, and balder.

At the end of the day, we need to be getting people out there (especially kids) interested in the Civil War enough that they want to go out and learn more about it... maybe even become reenactors. This takes people with a passion for history. No kid ever "got the feva!" for the Civil War (or for more cowbell!) from a half-hearted ignoramous. To honor those that fought is to keep their memory alive. That happens when we get people interested in the war who maybe didn't ever give it a second thought before.

I started losing my hair at 25. I'm sure some Civil War vet out there did too. So, me and my skinny ass and bald head will continue to be the booger on y'all's window to the past for quite sometime to come! But, I'll be sure to keep my hat on fer ye'! ;)

Chris: Your impression looks AOK to me. You can fall in with me anytime!

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Weight Standards?

Hi,

I think if events were to go down this path that they would be going down a slippery slope. What would be the next rule, a certain height, and since the majority of us would be way too tall we could no longer reenact. Know that being said I would like to think that for your heaths sake and maybe even for this hobbies sake that you would try to loose the weight. But, if you could not I would most certainly not hold it against you and say you can not reenact at this reenactment because you are too heavy. Just my 2 cents.

[csabugler]

Re: Weight Standards?

I think such standards would lead to VERY small events!! :D

In a perfect world we would all be able to fit the "average soldier" physical dimensions. Many of us, myself included, realistically would never get there. My maternal grandfather, born in the 1890's, was 6'4" and over 200 pounds. He would not have fit "the mold".

I think that as long as a fella can perform the duties of a soldier, and not fall out of the march too often, that's just going to have to be good enough.

I have spoken to literally thousands of spectators over the years, and have often remarked that a man of my size was not the norm, but I strive to represent the norm to the best of my ability.

[lambrew]

Re: Weight Standards?

I am losing weight for my health first, my hobby second. We should all strive to be fit, and healthy. However, the average American male/female, has gotten larger. We have better medical science, and nutrition to thank for that. As much as I want to be as accurate with my impression as I can, I can't fight 140+ years of evolution. In the mean time I'll keep at the exercise, and research the heck out of my impression.
Just my 2 cents....

Respectfully....
Sean Collicott

[Chuck Reynolds]

Re: Weight Standards?

Must be nice to have the correct body size. I am not and will never be, but I do enjoy the hobby.

Chuck

[Darrell Cochran]

Re: Weight Standards?

I'm not offended, I know I'm never again going to have the 27-inch waist I was in 1976 when I enlisted in the 20th Century Army.

But the U.S. Army in 1861 had no weight standard, and no height standard other than that a recruit was supposed to be "at least five feet three inches high", and between 21 (18 with parent's consent) and 35 years of age, "effective, able-bodied, sober, free from disease, of good character and habits, and with a competent knowledger of the English language."

Also this fellow doesn't look like he's missed many meals. :wink_smil http://www.historicalimagebank.com/g...g_MOH.jpg.html

My point, as has been alluded to by others, is that we should not get so wrapped up in the vision of the "typical" Civil War soldier that we start kicking people out of events our barring them from the hobby. Yes, the "typical" soldier in the Civil War was younger, thinner, shorter, and probably in better shape than we are ... Being a product of his society and diet just as we are a product of ours. But if the Army in 1861 didn't pay that much attention to weight, if we're going to be accurate then we shouldn't either.

And I would venture to say that we all - regardless of which side we portray - aspire to meet the standards of being effective, able-bodied, sober, etc., and I consider that of more importance.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Weight Standards?

I am about 5'8" and weight about 185 lbs. (34 waist, 46" chest) don't know if that would qualify me or not....but here is my thoughts...
If this authentic standard was put in place, how are we going to determine which person in our mess is the 1 in 3 that catches dysentery?
After that, will there be a health department on hand to distribute lice?
Once one is fully equipped with lice, where should we station the crew with knives to create small pox scars?
Syphilis was VERY common, anyone want to volunteer for this role?
I think there is a point where authenticity becomes impossibility. If you want to improve your impression to this level my hat is off to you. If you require it, then this is simply an impossibility and our hobby would suffer drastically. If you wish to "reproduce" a particular unit or a particular image, I can understand. But an entire event???? Unless it was advertised this way you'd make 2/3 of "like-minded" individuals a little angry.
What is the standard? Please see my other post entitled "big federals"
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...large+federals
my $.02

[Abrams]

I think there is a point where authenticity becomes impossibility. If you want to improve your impression to this level my hat is off to you. If you require it, then this is simply an impossibility and our hobby would suffer drastically.
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...large+federals
my $.02

I agree with you 100% Luke.

I am way outside the norm, both in age and weight. I am sorry I did not have an interest back when I wrestled 155 in high school, and was a non-farby height, weight, and age.

I see nothing wrong at all with setting up an event with the guidelines that all participants must be between the ages of 18-35, of appropriate height, weight, and gear. Just don't be surprised if you have a very small group that fit those specs. But I encourage you to do so. Recreate some of the long swift marches, like Hill rushing to Sharpsburg from Harpers Ferry to arrive just in the nick of time. Us older fat guys will pass on that event, heh. But I would wager you young and fit would have a great experience.

I read closely the standards and requirements of an event, as I do not wish to detract from anyone's experience, participant or observer. I am now assembling a civilian outfit, and may just turn to that side of the hobby in my "golden years".

I would be careful about being too judgemental of others though. If they meet the written standards of the event, you have no right to call anyone out because they do not meet your personal standards of a civil war soldier. Let the event organizers make that call.

My .02

Don't Forget to sign your name! Thanks - John Wickett, Moderator

[RN_PAC]

Re: Weight Standards?

'
Self-deprecating pic of what an accurate CS soldier does not look like (5' 7" / 195lbs) :

For heaven's sake, man, you look FINE; better than 50% of all event participants at every event I have been to; better than me (5' 11", 240 lbs, 34 years old). I am a barrel-chested dude, a former powerlifter who's strength is half of what it once was, but I still run an average of 10 miles a week and lift modest weight at least a couple times a week. I never did, never will, and never was meant to have the ideal habitus for this hobby. You are selling yourself way, WAY short and denying yourself some great experiences...do yourself a favor and get out there! I sure as hell am not going to deny them to myself if I have anything to do with it...

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Weight Standards?

Hi,

I agree with Mr. Scoufalos, you look better than many reenactors that I have seen in the field.