Weight Standards?

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Weight Standards?

Personal opinion here...
I think the weight thing should be used as a positive motivator, not a negative one. Rather than see guys booted from events, I'd like to see guys getting rewarded some how. Carrots are always better than sticks! ...or pizza!

Wouldn't it be great to see the hobby motivate guys to get in shape, lose weight and eat better? Seems like every national I've been to from 1989 -2001, somebody dropped dead of a heart attack.

A buddy of mine lost a bunch of weight a few years ago and had to replace all his uniforms. Why not have a "biggest loser" A-C challenge or something?

In a time when the hobby is at low ebb, I don't think we need to be searching for reasons to cut more guys out.

[RN_PAC]

Re: Weight Standards?

Hi,

I agree with Mr. Scoufalos, you look better than many reenactors that I have seen in the field.

Don't call me "Mr. Scoufalos"...my dad was a schoolteacher and that makes me feel old :D, and even less like an ideal reenactor! "Tom" will more then suffice...:wink_smil

[AZReenactor]

Re: Weight Standards?

The subject of height weight standards has come up countless times over the years and it strikes me that it frequently follows right on the heals of a gal-troop discussion.

Next we'll probably have a discussion about age, height, hair color or look for some other imaginary, yet undesirable, group trying to sneak into the authentic campaigner end of the hobby. We'll then work up a good list of who we are going to keep out, who we ought to keep out but won't, and who won't show up because their feelings are hurt or they are afraid of being judged and scrutinized by ambiguous standards. Then in a few more weeks we'll likely have someone go off on how we should be depicting companies and regiments rather then messes and lone hard-kewls. Pretty soon after that we'll have the back to the mainstream missionaries pop up and tell us how we all ought to really be part of a large army to be authentic and preach that the only way to do that is to allow everyone in. A while after that we'll have someone post that they don't want a certain group at events they go to and around and around the merry-go-round we go...

The truth is that a good many of the people on this forum are really thinking about mainstream or quasi-progressive events, and will never attend a tier one event themselves. The fact is that quality events, where one actually tries to live the role for more than the three battles and a ball modality, tend to weed out an awful lot of these problems on their own.

We still have folks who are overweight, of the wrong age, or needing better physical conditioning, occasionally we even have a disguised female sneak into an event. At the end of the event though, these things have little or no impact on the way we reenact, they aren't excuses to take shortcuts or things we need to figure out how to accommodate. Rather they are challenges for individuals to overcome and cope with on their own to participate.

If one is overweight or out of shape a strenuous march of a couple days will let them know they need to step up their game or find a different impression. The stresses of campaign living will likewise weed out the elderly and infirm or guide them into a historically appropriate impression for their condition. Gal troops are going to experience the very real and historic challenges of hiding their gender in the face of close living conditions without a personal wedge tent and private bathrooms.

The fact is there were exceptions in the armies back then who were overweight, outside military age, or female. The key though is that these were exceptional individuals who overcame their circumstances and found a way to serve despite them. They were not accommodated with a bending of the rules or a lowering of the standards; they had to step up and do more and better service just to get by. The same is true of those who would participate in quality events today. If they are going to participate in quality events where reenactors are expected to act and serve as soldiers, even if it is just for mere days at a time, they have to be able to meet the historic standards to do it well.

Sorry for going off topic, if you really wanted to read opinions on overweight reenactors, some of the weight related threads that have survived the crahes over the years:
1860s Weight Watcher: Yes or No?
Big Boy Cavalryman - 1st AL (US)
Average weight?
Fat guy
soldier's heights and weights

Enjoy.

[RN_PAC]

Re: Weight Standards?

Personal opinion here...
I think the weight thing should be used as a positive motivator, not a negative one... Wouldn't it be great to see the hobby motivate guys to get in shape, lose weight and eat better? ...In a time when the hobby is at low ebb, I don't think we need to be searching for reasons to cut more guys out.

Well said. Just the threat of all or part of my wardrobe becoming unwearable is a motivator for me to keep up my workout routine, if nothing else...

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Weight Standards?

The truth is that a good many of the people on this forum are really thinking about mainstream or quasi-progressive events, and will never attend a tier one event themselves. The fact is that quality events, where one actually tries to live the role for more than the three battles and a ball modality, tend to weed out an awful lot of these problems on their own.

The photos of the past 4 Tier 1 events do not support this.

These events are purported to be the pinnacle of historical accuracy and representation...literally "living history".

One can obfuscate about lice, dysentary, small numbers and other feel good inclusive words of support .... that's cool ... I know y'alls hearts are in the right place

But if I pull on that stinky gray uniform and submit myself as a Top Tier contender...by God I better bring an A... not B- or C+ Game (at least in the culture I come from).

A man must know his place in the order of things, nothing more.

CR

But if anyone is looking for a research based manic neurotic OCD CS soldier in FL/GA and wants to do it as materially and methodology accurate as possible at m'stream events...PM me. Think of it as authentic campaigner for the beer and chicken wing set. Have jean will travel.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Weight Standards?

Really...just what is the point of this discussion and ensueing debates?

Instead of trying to create new rules of enforcement "bans"...why don't we first take a look at this thread "A Dozen Inexpensive Ways to Improve Your Personal Impression: By Cal Kinzer" :http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ead.php?t=1094

And then get back to actual noteworthy discussions about how to actually improve our impressions and the hobby as a whole...instead of complaining about how some Tubby Grey Beard, ruined your immersion experience.

Paul B.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Weight Standards?

Christopher,
If you're merely looking at photos to tell the story of an event than you're missing a big part of the picture. An awful lot of what makes a quality event is the activities that go on at them. When you time is gobbled up with quality first person activities and doing the things they actually did, I find one doesn't have a whole lot of time to sit around and grouse about uniforms and physical characteristics. The standards on this end really aren't about how one looks, but how one plays the game. If a fellow is willing to roll up his sleeve and pitch in to work to make as an authentic event as he can for himself and his comrades, you'll find it can cover a multitude of authenticity shortcomings those with less to do might find.

Farbism doesn't begin with polyester blends, old age, or extra pounds; it begins at whatever point a person, no matter how hardcore, says "this is the limit of my authenticity pursuit, this is the point where I choose to cut a corner or to do less than the best I could. This may not be right or authentic, but it is good enough for me." It doesn't matter how far a person has come or how far ahead of the rest of the pack they are, at the moment they reach that point, farbism begins.

Paul,
As you observed, there isn't much point to these discussions the problem is rarely with what the gal-troop, old gray bearded guy, Tubby Bearded Guy, or or anyone else is doing. The problem is invariably what an individual isn't willing to do.

[yeoman]

Re: Weight Standards?

Sir, I feel I must respond. I am 5ft7in, 145lb. and 56 years old. Been thinking about getting back into hobby after 31 years. Farbism. I feel as though I,ve been Bushwacked. 56 years old. I will never seek anothers opinion knowing I could offend others. Sorry for the red face response,5ft7in 145lb. and 56years old. Mel L Hadden

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Weight Standards?

I see this from a non-emotional, purely historical perspective and apply the same due dillegence to detail as other material matters. Light not heat. I even posted a color, rather well-detailed photo of myself for disclosure purposes.

To nick a line from a cat that looks stellar in kit...

Others' mileage will vary.

[Spinster]

Re: Weight Standards?

In weighing the various aspects of this dilemma, personal responsibilty falls heavily on the participant.

In looking specifically at Tier 1 events, both the organizer and the participant must be honest and clear about conditions and physical requirements. I have seen the mission/goal of specific high quality events seriously hindered because a participant was not honest with himself about his fitness and physical capability in the face of known publicized conditions.

Now, being three ax-handles wide myself, and with dyepot-ruined lungs on top of that, there are a number of events where I'm no longer capable of meeting the physical requirements, even those of an elderly female civilian.
I've received more than one invitation where I had to look closely at shelter available, possible weather conditions, and the consequences to the event if I had to be medivaced out of there. Sometimes, I've chosen to stay home--sometimes very kind organizers have said "well, what if we......then can you come?" That's a great kindness, and sometimes there is no way.

In attempting to authentically represent this particular span of history, there are a number of things that simply are not possible or not desireable--real lice, dysentary, amputated limbs and dead bodies rotting in the sun all fall under this heading.

What is possible is for the participant to look at all aspects of what is required and make an honest assessment of his or her own ability to meet those physical challenges, be they soldier or civilian.

[Wild Rover]

Re: Weight Standards?

One cannot dictate weight standards, but I also think the physical demands of certain events rule out the extremely out of shape.

In the past year I have dropped 60 plus pounds, and now feel normal again. It took a ton of work, I still work out 5-6 days a week, run, and take full contact taekwondo 3 times a week, and take part in tournaments on weekends I am not doing something hobby related.

To be honest I am having a ton of fun with martial arts, but I also extremely enjoy being able to do whatever physical task the hobby throws at me without blinking an eye....I used to worry about X mile marches, or climbing the hills of WV, but now that I am back down to 174lbs at 6'0 I feel I can do anything....and will do it!

Was it tough? Oh yeah, my guts hurt for about 2 months with hunger pains, and the workouts made me almost too sore to get out of bed most mornings....but now it is easy, and I know I am no longer going to be that guy, you know the one that drops out and takes 2-3 messmates with him because I can no longer hack it.

In the CVG we have started a peer pressure get in shape contest, right now I bet there are over 10 guys who have dropped 20 or so pounds....and now as a unit we can move faster, last longer and cover more ground, like the original boys did.

You can never regulate such, but you can inspire and lead by example.

We will never be 20 years old, 145lbs and 5'6 as an average, but just for your experience sake, getting in better shape will add to your enjoyment.

It is hard to have fun while riding the SAG wagon.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Weight Standards?

Hallo!

Moderator hat off.. but close by... ;)

IMHO, "we" should not even be having this "discussion" here on the AC Forum.

On the Sliding Scale of Imperfection that is made up of varying Mental Pictures... for the "Authentic Civil War Living Historian" and those working and striving to become such a thing...

"What is possible is for the participant to look at all aspects of what is required and make an honest assessment of his or her own ability to meet those physical challenges, be they soldier or civilian."

The quality impression, IMHO, would amend that slightly to read:

What is possible is for the potential participant to look at all aspects of what is required and make an honest assessment of his or her own ability to meet those physical and mental challenges, be they soldier or civilian.

"Those aspects" being striving to embrace the Paradigm of the Three Legged Stool that combines as many mental, physical, and activities/environments of the Civil War period person as are desireable and actually doable.

Everything else, is just... details and discussions of details present or absent from one's impression, one's comrades' impressions, and events. And chosing what percentages have to be present to work for one's Mental Picture.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Secesh]

Re: Weight Standards?

And would you ask the same question if your were much larger and taller? Or do you ask it because you fit into the standards that you are espousing? For the record, I weigh 155 and stand 5' 8", but would not participate in any event that turns away most of my Pards....

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Weight Standards?

The quality impression, IMHO, would amend that slightly to read:

What is possible is for the potential participant to look at all aspects of what is required and make an honest assessment of his or her own ability to meet those physical and mental challenges, be they soldier or civilian.

Bingo ! Which is what I have been saying....I do this and if I am honest with MYSELF and respect my research ..I dont offer the physical leg of the 3 Legged Stool. Though my other stool-fu is strong for certain

Am I to see that if I am a suck it up, play nicely and stay in persona we can overlook that leg of the stool and no one will run me off?

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Bingo ! Which is what I have been saying....I do this and if I am honest with MYSELF and respect my research ..I dont offer the physical leg of the 3 Legged Stool. Though my other stool-fu is strong for certain

Am I to see that if I am a suck it up, play nicely and stay in persona we can overlook that leg of the stool and no one will run me off?

That my good friend is what I've been trying to tell you for some time. Your impression, mental and physical, is as good or better as 75% of the guys who post here and you need to come on out. Your "stool fu" is indeed strong Grasshopper.