Craftsmanship, business, and basic principals

[boreguard]

I'm ammused at the level of awe some give to vendors who are in the business of making items for the re-enacting community. Why is it funny? Well it's funny because I watch friends confuse what is nothing more than craftsmanship with what they term "artistic". I've seen post on this forum in the past referring and defending vendors as "artist" who must (to paraphrase) "be appreciated for their delay's and other poor business conduct because they are the best of the best, yada, yada, blah !"

Why bring this up and what service is it ? IMHO, there's nothing artistic to being a craftsman, there may be level's of crafstmanship, such as there are welders, pipefitters, electricians, and of course tailors, leathersmith's, and metalsmith's. But at the end of the day a craftsman isn't creating he's building or constructing something based on principals and patterns established a long time prior within the particular trade he's plying.

To my point, there are many craftsman who aren't businessmen...in fact being a businessman is a craft in and of itself, having laws and rules by which the "craft of business" is best operated under. One of the paramount rules of business is not to pay for something prior to delivery or completion; a deposit or a good faith committment of a small advance sure, but the incentive to work is lost when payment is made in full prior to the work being done, it's a simple law of business that is unchanging.
Every now and again it may work in or on a very limited basis, or in a single instance, but on a day to day basis it's a recepie for faliure.

So as one considers paying homage to the XYZ vendor, or similar, of this community do yourself a favor and tell them to take a hike the next time they want full payment in advance for the product of their "craft" and remind them that their items always have a market because there's a known delay in getting their items to the customer, thus the quick sale of their items on these and other forums.

I laugh my A$$ off when I think about being told I'd have to pay in advance to have a particular shirt made by a particular vendor, a size 40 at that ! How fast does the examples of their work go here on the B.S.T. forum ? Pretty fast. Well don't worry my money is still in my pocket and at least I'm happy because they don't have my money and aren't having to ignore my phone calls and emails months later asking where is my sack coat, vest, shirt, or similar.

A refund to the poor customer who paid in advance for an item and is still waiting WELL beyond a reasonable time frame would be redeeming, at least for one's honor.

Being a craftsman doen't make you a good businessman, but being a good businessman can ensure your reputation and keep a good craftsman busy for a long time...quite possibly for a whole career.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Craftsmanship, business, and basic principals

Speaking from the experience of someone who has made items both as an individual and running a small (VERY SMALL) "business" of providing items to individuals and Approved Vendors I can honestly say that money up front is required part of the time in order to cover material cost. I know there are 4 things hanging in my closet that I made for people and they simply dropped off the face of the earth come time to pay me. I have a wonderful fiance, a demanding job, and hobbies other than this one, so my time is pretty limited in the sewing shop these days. But at the end of the day the people leaving me high and dry is what made me stop accepting a large volume of orders. I normally gave 2 wks notice of time of delivery, and asked for money then, or coordinated an exchange at an upcoming event. Do I think guys like Wambaugh, Kiev or any other should spend the time pumping out a size 40 chest (it's not that common of a size in our plus sized ranks believe it or not) jacket without having at least half? Heck no. Does that mean I won't make things entirely? Nope, that just means that when I get the email about a pair of pants or jacket I make it clear it can be 6 months, and if that is a problem send a recommendation from my vendor list I compiled that has advantages and disadvantages of each vendor on the list.

There are three tailors and one leather worker I have no problem paying up front, or paying when they are preparing my item for construction. I do it because at the end of the day I know my wait for those items was worth it, and the fact is I sat on a waiting list before they even ran my card or took a check. I march proudly by two of these guys each year at events, and order all of my leather items from the other craftsman. These guys are certainly craftsmen and the end product shows.

Off to go fishing with my Dad. Well...off to go on a boat ride with my Dad.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Craftsmanship, business, and basic principals

Another, rant about some vendor...

This just gets really old after awhile, if you have a problem take it through the proper channels, there are many to choose from.

Just because some unnamed vendor burned you doesn't give you the right to come on this forum and belittle the efforts of all the other vendors, approved and non-approved, who do work their tails off serving their customers and producing top-notch quality products of the highest historical accuracy. They are ARTISTS whether you want to consider them ones or not. Do you think just anybody who taught himself or herself how to put together a Childs kit well enough could then produce the uniform of say, a Field Marshall of Napoleon's Army? Nope, it takes a REAL artist to be able to research the garment, design it, draft the pattern, cut the cloth, sew the thing together with the same in-human quality found on originals, and master the art of gold bullion embroidery that those coats were covered in, oh yeah and the garment should fit as though you've been poured into it. Know any craftsman that talented? Especially one who doesn't deserve to be paid up front for his or her honest hard work?

I've had the pleasure to serve many folks in this hobby, sometimes full time sometimes in the extremely limited time I have between a full time job and going to school to become a professional men's clothing designer. I have made garments for folks, and upon completion they vanished or took months to pay me for work I already completed. Vendors have to make a living, pay mortgage, feed their kids, etc., do you think they can do that buy making custom (or even regular) garments for people and then praying they get paid upon completion?

This thread is one more pointless rant about some vendor, and a rehashing of principles we've been over a million times before. I hope the MODS just lock this one up already.

[JimKindred]

Re: Craftsmanship, business, and basic principals

Dennis,

Instead of subjecting every one to this lengthy rant, if a vendor owes you money then say so.

[toptimlrd]

Re: Craftsmanship, business, and basic principals

To echo what Pat stated much of the problem involves orders that are never paid for and a vendor ends up with an item he or she can't sell. One of the nice things about having localized vendors and reps is the ability to develop a more personal relationship. I think many of the vendors truthfully don't necessarily want to require up front payment but it has become necessary. It is much easier to work out an arrangement for payment when one has an established relationship with the vendor. It is also important to remember that most of the vendors don't make their living doing this but do this part time. Whther you want to call it an art or a craft, there is a cetain inherent talent for capturing the nuances of these items.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Craftsmanship, business, and basic principals

Hallo!

I believe that business models, business practices, business concepts, Civil War community vendor history, and vendor compliments and criticisms have been frequently and well covered by previous threads and discussions.

To revisit the Past here, is best done through the Search Feature and not resurrection.

I am closing this thread.

Curt
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